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Epic games in London
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Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Right. Well, I have had this sitting around for a while, but I decided to put together some rules and ideas for campaign/warbands in EpicA (believe it or not, inspired by the recent Path to Glory for Fantasy and the old Rogue Trader/Relm of Chaos books).

Anyway, the rules are here:

Crucible of Champions

I would be really interested in hearing what you guys think about these rules. They are not finished yet, and only the section for creating the warband, champion, retinue and followers are online. The rest will follow. This will include how to fight with the warbands, units which do not survive, new followers, rewards and gifts for the champions and his path to a Daemon Prince or Chaos Spawn - and the subsequent rise of a new champion.

Right now, I would like to hear about:

- Most interestingly for me, I would like to hear about any warbands that you guys roll up and put together. I cant even imagine all the possibilities that are present, so a few 'typical examples' would be great. It is difficult to get this balanced, but also variable! Even if you dont want to play this system, roll up a warband and let me know what you get.

- Any 'power combinations' that are potentially possible given the random tables - although this is less of a problem as the player actually has little control over the results.

- Any thoughts or comments about the system generally. It will obviously be linked to the current Chaos force list, and so could change as this does, but I dont expect the overall rules to change a lot.

Thanks. So, to start off, here is the warband that I rolled as a part of the rules set themselves. Unfortunately, the warband came out quite well, so I will be generating a second one later to illustrate the variation what can be achieved:


Champion and Retinue:
Plyshtarin - Chaos Marine Champion, with the Leader, First Strike and Immune to Panic abilities
Eight Chaos Marine Units
Five Chaos Rhino transports

Alpha Formation:
Six Noise Marine units
Three Slaanesh Rhino transport vehicles
Eight Chaos Marine Dreadnoughts

Beta Formation:
One Chaos Traitor Arch Heretic unit
Eleven Chaos Traitor units
Seven Big Mutants

Gamma Formation:
Five Chaos Marine Bike units

Zero mutation points, and ten advancement points.
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
I'm eager to see the progression tables for mutations and adding new units, as well as how you intend for casualties to come back over the course of a campaign.

I rolled up 7 or 8 warbands and calculated rough points just for comparison purposes.  It seems most come out a bit over a thousand points, mostly the 1100 to 1300 range.  The highest one I rolled was about 1600, and the lowest was a bit under 1000.

It seemed as if an awful lot of CSMs forgot to bring their rhinos, though.  I'd like to see the die range for that expanded.

Based on the training scenarios I've done, I'd say that's a 30-45 minute game.


It certainly seems as if it would be fun to run a leage/campaign off of it.  If I could convince some of my friends, I would probably even give them enough figs to build a warband.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
That is very interetsing, thanks. I am very pleased that the warbands generated end up at a fairly focussed points value, as a 1000 point against a 1600 point game would not be too biased.

As for the issue of transports, I will look at this again. Thanks for your analysis. Are there any details available of a warband or two that you generated?

I will get the next parts of this online as soon as I can. Thanks again.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Perhaps I can answer your points in a bit more detail now.

Casualties will all be simply rolled at the end of the game. They are permanently removed on a D6 roll of a 6. Other results bring them back for the next game. I could sort out out a 'recovery period' but this would add paperwork and complicate things.

Followers are rolled on the original follower tables, and the number is decided ona dice roll, modified by how well you did in the previous game. The same system for rewards and mutations.

This dice roll modification has cause a fair few headaches. I started with the simple 'one point for a win' system that Path To Glory used, but this seemed too simplistic for me. In the end, I have a system based on percentages, which should reward smaller warbands who take on significantly larger ones, and allow newcomers and underpowered warbands to fight and get something in return.

Chaos Marines have transports two thirds of the time. The only increase would be to to give them transports on a 2+, but I felt that this would pretty much make it very likely that Marines had them, and would reduce the variety. Is it that you feel that four in six are bad odds, or that you had a bad spell of dice rolling?

A 30-45 minute game for a beginning warband seems about right. I am quite happy with that. Thanks for your comments, I will get working on the next part of this.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
>> Followers are rolled on the original follower tables, and the number is decided ona dice roll, modified by how well you did in the previous game. The same system for rewards and mutations.

Did I miss this system somewhere?  Is there a setup for trading in advancement points for followers?  For gaining mutation points or rewards?

Basically, I guess I'm asking if the stuff linked to is only about half the rules as you eventually intend to have them.

Re: Marine tranpsort.  I just thought that 1/3 of the CSMs slogging it out on foot was too many.  Marines and CSMs pretty much always come with transport in my experience. 1/6 seems more in line with that.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
No, sorry. That should have come under the heading of 'coming soon'.  :)  That is part of how the final section will work. Advancement points wont be traded in, but if you get a certain amount you are entitled to a modifier on your dice roll for the mutation/reward and number of follower rolls. Anyway, this will all be clarified a bit later.

Yes, what is currently on line is the first of three. Section two is quite minor, giving some scenarios and any changes when playing games, and section three will go into the changes to the warband as a result of the games. Sections two and three should be completed together, as soon as I can convert them from notes on my PDA to an HTML file.

I see what you mean about the Rhinos. I am not sure whether to go with 2+ or 3+ for transports now. I dont know if a 2+ will result in almost all Marines having transports. I think that I will leave it at 3+ for now, but I will keep your points in mind. Thanks.
Author:  Jimbo [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
In case you missed it...

The release date for Epic Armageddon is now February 2004.
Author:  TuffSkull [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
They are determined to stick to that as well, although with a possible remake of the new landraider and the fact that they arent starting to paint the majority of Ork forces until October, I can see some of the model releases being slightly delayed.
Author:  netepic [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
True - although it was really late Jan that it will be coming out to conincide with the Feb release of WD.

So something for us to spend our christmas money then :).
Author:  primarch [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Hi!

As I have stated before, I think putting off its release after the Christmas season is a good thing. There will be too much stronger competition from the main GW lines in this season and the release of a fanatic game will very likely "fall under the radar" if it competes head to head in that season with established GW games.

Being by itself in Feb gives it a better chance to be noticed and bought.

Primarch
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
I'd rather have a "late" release, then a "half-baked" version ... but we'll see Tau and Necron in 3-4 years, anyway ... :laugh:  :laugh:  }:)
Author:  primarch [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Hi!

I just hope chaos we'll be out within the year, chaos players have had a very LONG wait, its fair they get some attention soon. While I personally would like Tau and necron Releases, if they never see the light of day in favor of older less supported armies that would be just and fair.  :)

Primarch
Author:  stormseer [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
That seems a little doubtful- Jervis told me that the Eldar would be out around this time next year.. so maybe the beginning of 2005?  ???
Author:  darkone26 [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Chaos forces have had a long wait and I would love GW to bring stuff out for them, I would have hoped chaos was around for the end of 2004 and eldar in the summer 6 months earlier
Author:  primarch [ Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic games in London
Hi!

The way the release schedule is shaping up is not good. Waits of years, instead of months is not what you call inspiring.

Primarch
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