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New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
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Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Well, the Epic Chaos lists are now out and available, in their first form. What do you all think? Personally, I find them interesting, but it feels like there is something missing - I am just not sure exactly what.

It is good that the four powers start to feel different from each other, and fantastic that we are finally faced with the rivalry of the powers again.

I am still looking to put together my Slaanesh force, and I considered a Khorne one a while ago, so I guess that both of those are on the way. Knowing me, I will end up with five armies - the four powers and an undivided!

I am also interested in the new troop types available, and I must admit that I cant wait to see the Epic Raptors!  :cool:
Author:  Vitamins [ Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
some of the units seem not so good. like nurglings. why would you take them?
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Fri Jan 17, 2003 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.  I'll try soon.  i wont have much to compare it against though.  I've never been a chaos player in any version (the closest to chaos for me is my Skaven) and never played Chaos in Epic40K (the only version I've played previous to epicA).  I'll be interested in what the greater daemons are like though, if anything just to provide a little insight into the Avatar.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
As for the Greater Daemons, I was surprised that they were classed as War Engines. Then, when I thought about it more, I realised what a great idea this actually was!
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Well, I've just had a quick glimpse of the list.

I went straight to the Greater Daemons.  DC2 for three of them, which I assume will be the same for the Avatar.  It is interesting giving them war engine stats, and I think should work nicely.  I think I would like slightly larger models than the current ones to show it though.  (well than the epic Avatar at least)

I wonder what the stats will be like for the Avatar.  I would say pretty much the same as the Bloodthirster, other than its speed.  I would definantly expect a close combat value of 2+ too.

I like the way the different factions dont get along now.  Its one thing that bugged me in other things, how they all get along.  Do they fight in 40K?
Author:  RobertBMartin [ Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
I've really been looking forward to playtesting  EpicA.  However, I've been way too busy painting my Mortifactors for Baltimore GT.  I have a few questions about the Chaos list:

1) Can you have CSM and Titans in the same list?

2) If not, what can you take in the Titan list?
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Quote (RobertBMartin @ 24 2003 Jan.,14:56)
1) Can you have CSM and Titans in the same list?

1) Yes. To a degree. The CSM list currently has Questors, Plague Towers, Lords of Battle and Banelords.

2) I remember there being sme mention have having access to Traitor Titan legions as allies
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Per Shadow Hunter's request...

Tsons infantry currently have no distance weapons (small arms oonly), and are Immune to Panic with a Reinforced Armor save.

Personally, I think the 1 psyker/9 Tsons should yield a heavy weapon for every other stand. ?Doombolt and Bolt of Change are nasty. ?Leaders (Warlords, etc.) should get the Smite ability.

I think Raptors should be replaced with chosen disc riders and/or possessed with wings (daemonic flight in 40K). ?They should have the stats of Raptors, with either an extra attack or a MW attack to reflect mounts and psyker abilities (all possessed and chosen are psykers). ?Obviously, they should have a higher point cost.

No bikes, since bikers can't have the Mark of Tzeentch. ?Possibly, possessed and disc riders could have slightly different stats to make up for this.

No havocs, since they can't have the Mark.

Tsons Terminators could arguable be reduced in power (since you can take regular TSons upgraded to termies w/o heavy weapons), but I think since they would still get psykers, and chosen would get psykers and heavy weapons both, we should split the difference and leave them.

I would add a Silver Tower weapons platform in place of the Defiler options.

I also think Tsons dreads would carry two weapons. ?in 40K they get their flame-defense against HTH, so I would field them exclusively as 2-weapon configurations. ?I'm very open on this, though.

For this same reason, I might bump the CC of their preds/LRs.

Obviously, aircraft would be the Tzeentch version, rather than the new modified Imperials.

I like Traitor legion titans, so I would put them in the list. ?IIRC, the fluff has at least one Tzeentch-dedicated legion, though I can't remember specifics, and might be wrong.

I'll try to cobble together some points/detachments later today.

==========

I looked up the titan legions. ?Apparently there are the Suns of Damnation (Citadel Journal - formerly Burning Stars) and the Stormlords (Inquisitor magazine - blue and purple colors).
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Thanks for making a start.


What I need to do is have a good look at the current chaos list. ?I only have the previous ?version, not the black legion one, and haven't really looked at that.  So as yet, I have nothing to work on/with.

I would give the stands a doombolt shot to represent the sorcerer too. ?Something similar to the stats for a heavy bolter.

You've put in some good ideas.

1K sons have two types of termies. ?Rubric ones and the chosen. ?In 40K they are very different, I'm not sure if that could be taken into consideration for EpicA.

The Chosen termies are all sorcerers, so would be powerful in shooting and HTH. ?The rubric are okay in both, but more resiliant.  I would like different stats, but realise its probably not practical.  The models would look too similar, and it'd get confusing.  So maybe you're right with taking an average, and using standard termies.

There's no restriction for 1Ksons taking a defiler.  Did you mean to not let them have it?

My Dread is an important part of my 40K list.  And I know many players prefer the double weapon platform.  The only reason I haven't yet is lack of money. (I want the forgeworld version eventually. Until then, I have to use my converted marine dread).

Do you think there would be enough variety with an epic 1Ksons list?  It is sounding pretty limited. (just like the 40K list  :laugh:   )

I'll have a look at the chaos list tonight, so I can try and add real input, instead of the drivvle that just came out. :l
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
>> I only have the previous ?version, not the black legion one, and haven't really looked at that.

Personally, I don't like the list. ?FYI, all the lists have been intended to be Black Legion lists.

>> I would give the stands a doombolt shot to represent the sorcerer too. ?Something similar to the stats for a heavy bolter.

Doombolts are 15cm, AP4+. ?Bolt of Change are 30CM MW5+, per the current stat lines for daemons. ?I think BoC is more approriate. ?It makes shooting a good propsect without being ridiculous.

>> There's no restriction for 1Ksons taking a defiler. ?Did you mean to not let them have it?

Actually, I was thinking of Obliterators when I typed "Defiler." ?Obliterators can't have a Mark of Tzeentch, so they are out. ?Defilers are fine. ?Silver Towers should be an excellent candidate for AA abilities, which matches up nicely with removing the Obliterator AA capability.

>> Do you think there would be enough variety... sounding pretty limited. (just like 40K)

I think it should be fairly limited in order to match the character of the Tsons.

I think a boost to their strategy rating is in order for their seer abilities. ?I am considering d6+1 (for a 2d6+1 roll - average 8) and d3+2 (d6+d3+2 - average 7.5).

=============

I knocked out a draft, but I don't have the old stats for the Doomwing and Firelord.  If someone could post them, that would be great.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Wow! You guys have done an excellent job so far with this list. I don't like chaos, but with a list like this I would be tempted to play them.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Okay, how does one go about posting a file to this board where people can read it? ?I have a TSons list worked up in MS Word format exactly as the official playtest lists.

I suppose if all else fails I could put it on the EpicA website with all the other fan lists, but I don't know if those who are interested are members already.

=======
I also came up ideas for with Rubric Termies versus Chosen Termies. ?Basically, the Rubric would turn in the autocannons for Immune to Panic and Invulnerability Save. ?I'm not sure if it would warrant a points reduction. ?Buy them in blocks of 4 just like regular termies. ?SM termies could be used for models because the Rubrics aren't mutated.

Chosen would keep everything, but add 1 BoC per stand (a lot of firepower). ?Obviously, they would be more expensive. ?I was thinking buy them in blocks of 2. ?Use normal CSM termie minis.

As of right now, though, I didn't put them in.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Quote (nealhunt @ 09 2003 July,20:34)
Okay, how does one go about posting a file to this board where people can read it? ?I have a TSons list worked up in MS Word format exactly as the official playtest lists.

Hi, great work with the list. Once this is done, you really should send it to Jervis and put it on the EpicA board. I am afraid that I have not allowed attachments to the board.

However, if you have web space, you can simply add a link to a post. If you have problems doing this, let me know and I can find some space. Also, I can convert to PDF if you would like.

All the best.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
Right, I had a look at the black legion list last night (more importantly all the 1Ksons relevant stuff).

BoC for the stands is fine by me, I only mentioned DB as thats what I use in 40K for my rubric squads.  I suppose with the horrors/flamers already having doombolt, you dont need it on the sons too.

Its a good idea using the marine termies for rubric sons, and shouldn't be too difficult to give them a little head dress.  Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size?

What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier?  I remember that it was as good as a nightwing in epic40K, but thats all I can offer.

What do you think about the dread?  How about reducing its CC ability and giving it another weapon?  Maybe replace the autocannon and powerfist with twin lascannon and missilelauncher.

The Defiler and LoC will be the CC monsters.  The Dreads can stnad back with the Sons laying down fire power.

Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight?  I was surprised it was 4+ same as the rest.

They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers.  Something like cancelling other armies abilities on a roll of 4+ or something might be nice (thinking off the top of my head).  So, for example, when Eldar try to steal the initiative, you can use your Psychic powers to try and stop it.

I like the thought of disc riders.  It would give a unique look.  With all the vehicles, I dont think the variety will be as bad as I first thought.  I know they are supposed to be limited.

I'd like to see your list, If you dont get it up (ooer  :p   ) then email it me please to monkey_tin@hotmail.com
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
I e-mailed it. ?Give it a look and let me know.

>> Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size?

They are rare, too. ?Since they are only available as attachments rather than independent formations, I don't think reducing the squad size is that important.

>> What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier?

I made some up from memory. ?My idea on them is that Tzeentch should be second only to Eldar in airpower, but that they have a bigger emphasis on ground attack than air superiority.

The Doomwings come in 3s, the Firelords in pairs. ?I gave the Firelords a total of 3BP so that a pair is the same as a pair of Marauders, but a single one is still wicked on its own. ?

>> What do you think about the dread? ?

I kept the autocannon, traded the powerfist for an ML, and I am treating the warp flame vehicle upgrade as +1 Extra attacks. ?This gives it 2 attacks in CC, but the MW is gone, which sounds about right.

I also gave an option to upgrade the Armor formation with Warp flame for +25/vehicle. ?A fully tricked out formation - 6 preds, 4 LR, all with flames - comes out to an even 1000 points, but it is wicked at distance and in FF, and darn respectable in CC.

>> Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight?

I think it's something to consider. ?Unfortunately, it's part of that Slow and Steady thing, which would also mean cutting their movement if we wanted to integrate it. ?Hmm...

>> They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers.

I gave them +1 initiative (2d6+1 total), and the heavy weapons are all really psychic powers. ?I think that is enough character without making them too fiddly.

For the Storm Lords, I replaced 1 weapon system on each titan with an Inferno Cannon in keeping with the Tzeentch/flame connection.

==========

Cybershadow: ?I don't have access to a web page. ?If you would like to post my list to one, it would be appreciated.

==========

I also posted it to the EpicA mailing list for those who are members.
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