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Aerospace rules questions

 Post subject: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Hi everyone,

I have a few questions about the aerospace rules…

First of all, defensive AA of an aircraft. When can an aircraft that has carried out e.g. a ground attack use it’s defensive AA weapons? Any time an enemy air formation makes an approach move within their weapon range, or only against enemy interceptors targeting the formation?

And how do you play the disengagement move? Do the players take turns or does all aircrafts disengage simultaneously? If you take turns can air units use their AA attacks against disengaging enemies?

What about landed air-transports that opts to remain on the ground, I assume they can use their AA weapons against disengaging enemies? Do they fire with -1 to-hit for ”moving” this turn?

Finally, spaceships with either bombs or pin-point attacks. When does the player have to declare which weapon they will use? As part of the army list, before deployment or when the spaceship is activated? And if taken to a tournament can you change weaponry based on opponent?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Argol wrote:
First of all, defensive AA of an aircraft. When can an aircraft that has carried out e.g. a ground attack use it’s defensive AA weapons? Any time an enemy air formation makes an approach move within their weapon range, or only against enemy interceptors targeting the formation?


If it's being intercepted, yes. If it's not being intercepted only if the enemy ends its approach move in range and arc.

Quote:
And how do you play the disengagement move? Do the players take turns or does all aircrafts disengage simultaneously? If you take turns can air units use their AA attacks against disengaging enemies?


They are simultaneous, no defensive AA at this point unless it's landed and not disengaging.

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What about landed air-transports that opts to remain on the ground, I assume they can use their AA weapons against disengaging enemies? Do they fire with -1 to-hit for ”moving” this turn?


I'd be interested to hear how other communities play this. It doesn't come up too often here, but we play with no -1.

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Finally, spaceships with either bombs or pin-point attacks. When does the player have to declare which weapon they will use? As part of the army list, before deployment or when the spaceship is activated? And if taken to a tournament can you change weaponry based on opponent?


http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#1 ... datasheets

In a tourney, you pick a list for all the games so you wouldn't be able to change it between games. Ask your TO though, they may allow it.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:21 pm 
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I cannot remember the last time a landed aircraft stayed on the ground and fired AA in the disengagement phase in my games. I think I would probably apply the -1 though.

What Dave says about weapon options is true (ie if it's a totally separate weapon rather than multiple firing modes) but since unit profiles are army list specific different communities can have different setups. For example in the epic UK eldar codex, the wraithship has a note in its unit profile which says that it chooses whether to use pinpoint or bombardment when declaring which turn it will come on.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:35 am 
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Thanks for the replies guys, even thou they are a bit ambiguous.

Shouldn't we try to make some kind of official NetEA ruling in situations like these, where the rules can be interpreted in different ways? I know some of these situations has been clarified in the FAQ...

How does new FAQs get added? I'm thinking e.g. the -1 to-hit on air transport AA during disengage should be defined one way or the other...

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:39 am 
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Wait for some more people to respond. Once there seems to be a consensus I'll add a FAQ.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:07 pm 
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I thought airborn aircraft that have made an approach move can fire defensively against enemy aircraft making an approach move past them and regardless of whether the enamy aircraft are making a ground attack or intercept. Having looked at the rules its quite unclear to me now. So interceptors can't fire defensively at all? Ground attackers can only fire defensively at interceptors and only if the interceptors finish their approach move in range/arc of the ground attacker (but it doesn't matter if the interceptors are intercepting a different ground attacker)?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Epic UK just ruled on this. Airborne aa can only fire if an intercepting, Capping, or ground attacking aircraft ends its move within range and arc of airborne aa.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Neal had this to say:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=23241

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Q: The rules state "Note that aircraft carrying out a ground attack mission that are armed with AA weapons may shoot at enemy interceptors that fall within the AA weapon’s fire arc." This sounds as if only aircraft on ground attack missions may use their flak attacks. Also, it seems to imply that the ground attack formation can only fire at interceptors targeting that formation. Can aircraft on ground attack missions fire at interceptors other than those attacking it? For example, if Bomber Flight 1 ends in the AA arc of Bomber Flight 2 and is intercepted by enemy fighters, can Bomber Flight 2 fire, even though it is not the target of the interceptors? Can aircraft on missions other than ground attack make flak attacks at all?
A: Yes to all the questions. If aircraft end their approach move within range and fire arc of AA weapons, the enemy get flak attacks regardless of the missions of any of the aircraft.

The definitive statement of how flak attacks work is in the first sentence, "[flak attacks may] shoot immediately after an enemy aircraft formation makes an approach move but before it makes its attack." The sentence quoted in the question is explanatory, intended to point out a particular situation that might not be immediately obvious (that's why it begins with "Note..."). It is not intended to createadditional restrictions on the basic flak attack mechanic.

As a side note, this has been a common point of contention. This is the NetEA answer and it is the ruling used by the Epic UK tournament organizers as well. Some groups house rule aircraft versus aircraft flak attacks differently.


I thought we had this covered somewhere. If not, I'll work it in.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:10 am 
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I think AA attacks from airborne aircraft is quite well settled actually. They can fire against aircraft that end their approach move in range.

The part that has been ambiguous in this thread is whether a landed aircraft that does not disengage will suffer -1 on its flak attacks for having 'moved' that turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:11 am 
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My gut feeling is that as it is an approach 'move' then they would be at -1

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:17 am 
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I recall Ginger saying that an approach move doesn't count as a move for the purposes of triggering overwatch (although the disembarking of transported units does).


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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:22 am 
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ffoley wrote:
I recall Ginger saying that an approach move doesn't count as a move for the purposes of triggering overwatch (although the disembarking of transported units does).


Ooh, good point

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:36 am 
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For consistency then, landed AC shouldn't get the -1 to flak attacks in the end phase.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:10 pm 
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unless they actually did take a move action (e.g. landed aircraft takes an engage action during the turn)


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 Post subject: Re: Aerospace rules questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I meant "landed this turn" but yes, aircraft that engage after remianing on the ground for a turn will take a -1 to that flak attacks if they choose to not disengage again.

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