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Drowning and other recent absurdities.

 Post subject: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:21 pm 
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Ok, genuinely we are not trying to stretch the rules to new and absurd levels, it just seems that our three game wine fuelled mid weekend marathons bring out some intresting questions.

We had in a recent game a unit of infantry assulting across water. Conscious that the opponent was a trifiling 10 cm away from the other bank, and they had bikes, some units crossed and some stayed on the other bank to fire fight.
After retaining coherency of 5cm for the assault, the 'link' in the unit was killed in the assult.
This left me with some units on the left bank and some on the right and outwith coherency.
Remmembering the rule about having to move back into coherency with any move, I used the victors 5cm move to move back into coherency. Only to then fail the dangerous terrain for the the new linking unit.

After some debate, and recalling my most recent game against the fersome Tim, we agreed that we would play that the unit would need to move on its next activation back into coherency. There was however discussion that part of the unit should be wiped out for being out of coherency. How would your wise selfs play it?

And in case this wasn't taxing enough, we then had a debate about fearless units losing an assult where they are surrounded. - Think a squad of thousand sons surrounded by orks. In the case where they cannot move through the opponent units (not being war engines) and so cannot get 5cm clear in any direction. Would this see the fearless units wiped out or is it just a bit gamesmanship?

Of course at this stage we decided more wine and less rules would win the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Dan 1314 wrote:

We had in a recent game a unit of infantry assulting across water. Conscious that the opponent was a trifiling 10 cm away from the other bank, and they had bikes, some units crossed and some stayed on the other bank to fire fight.
After retaining coherency of 5cm for the assault, the 'link' in the unit was killed in the assult.
This left me with some units on the left bank and some on the right and outwith coherency.
Remmembering the rule about having to move back into coherency with any move, I used the victors 5cm move to move back into coherency. Only to then fail the dangerous terrain for the the new linking unit.

After some debate, and recalling my most recent game against the fersome Tim, we agreed that we would play that the unit would need to move on its next activation back into coherency. There was however discussion that part of the unit should be wiped out for being out of coherency. How would your wise selfs play it?

Rulebook
Quote:
1.7.4 Formations
Any units that are out of formation for any reason after a formation has taken the movement part of its action are destroyed. The controlling player may choose which units are ‘out of formation’ and destroyed. Note that each unit lost will place one Blast marker on the main part of the formation. This applies after each individual move, so if a formation made a march action, you can’t wait until the end of all three moves in order to bring units back into formation – any out of formation units are destroyed at the end of the first move (and again at the end of the second and third moves if any other units have also ended up out of formation following the move).


Consolidation moves are considered as normal moves
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... on#p382245
and an FAQ answer confirms this
Quote:
A: Yes. The Consolidation Move is considered a movement .



Quote:
And in case this wasn't taxing enough, we then had a debate about fearless units losing an assult where they are surrounded. - Think a squad of thousand sons surrounded by orks. In the case where they cannot move through the opponent units (not being war engines) and so cannot get 5cm clear in any direction. Would this see the fearless units wiped out or is it just a bit gamesmanship?

Of course at this stage we decided more wine and less rules would win the day.


From 2.1.3
Quote:
Units that are Fearless are immune to damage from losing an assault (both the additional hits and being wiped out if already broken) and from the damage inflicted by Blast markers if broken. When broken or otherwise forced to take a withdrawal move, Fearless units may choose not to withdraw, and if the
unit elects to withdraw it will be destroyed only if it ends its move within 5cm of the enemy rather than 15cm. Fearless units that remain stationary do not take additional damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:11 pm 
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LoL, I was just quoting the same stuff :D

However, while Fearless units are immune from the effects of losing an assault etc, they must still comply with coherency rules in 1.2.1 Formations and 1.7.4 Formations. If they end up out of coherency they are destroyed.
This gives the Fearless units two alternatives after an assault.

1. Remain stationary after the assault.
When they next activate, the units must comply with coherency rules and ZoC rules, but they are ok for now.

2. Consolidate / Withdraw after the assault
If they move, the units must comply with coherency rules, but may avoid ZoC issues when they next activate. More importantly, units that have lost an assault can ignore enemy ZoC so may have the option of moving to a 'better' location.


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:22 am 
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Ginger wrote:
However, while Fearless units are immune from the effects of losing an assault etc, they must still comply with coherency rules in 1.2.1 Formations and 1.7.4 Formations. If they end up out of coherency they are destroyed.


You can still choose which part of the formation is the 'coherent' one though, potentially sacrificing a larger part to keep the smaller 'in coherency', right?


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:58 am 
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Yup you have the right to destroy the larger group to retain the smaller, historically many commissars have made that choice . . . :D


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:49 pm 
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dptdexys wrote:
Consolidation moves are considered as normal moves
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... on#p382245
and an FAQ answer confirms this
Quote:
A: Yes. The Consolidation Move is considered a movement .


It follows that you can also move cautiously and get a re-roll, you'd only be sacrificing cm if you're Eldar.

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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Thank you gentlemen for your reply.

Just to clarify then:
If a unit wins an assault but is out of formation, it can choose not to use its reconcile move.
In such case its next action will require it moves into formation.

However if it uses its reconcile move, and ends out of formation (because I rolled a double one for dangerous terrain when going slow!!) then bad things happen.
Correct (ish)?


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:22 pm 
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Yep. Definitely one of those weird situations in the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:36 pm 
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I don't know Dave, films are full of examples where a group suddenly finds itself divided by a river / ravine / 'dangerous terrain', the hero's section moves on and the other section is lost to the story (presumed destroyed by enemy action or just returned to base etc). Seems perfectly logical to me :)


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 Post subject: Re: Drowning and other recent absurdities.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:52 pm 
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That's not what bothers me, it's more if you choose not to consolidate you're fine, but if you do choose to consolidate there's a chance you'll loose units.

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