It says in the barrage rules that

In order to speed dice rolling we recommend rolling to hit all units of exactly the same type together, and then removing any casualties from those closest to the enemy first.

So it sounds like a convenience rather than a rule

However, if you have other weapons that are only in range or LOS of the closest enemies then it is better for you if you don't use this convenience as after resolving the barrage closest first you may be left with no (or at least fewer) targets.

Do you think it is appropriate to ignore this convenience in such circumstances?

Your range stretches to include the targets for ALL weapons you're shooting with.

So in your example you would roll your barrage hits. Next you would roll your AP/AT hits (or you could roll AP/AT then barrage, it doesn't matter). All those hits go into a pool of hits and are assigned, closest to furthest, to all valid targets. Valid targets would include enemies you have LoF and range to with at least one of your units' weapons, or all targets under a barrage template.

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Dave

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I have to disagree when it comes to the allocation, as barrages involve rolling to hit specific units under the template and I thought the rules were clear on that (though I don't have them in front of me so I apologise if I am mistaken). The speed rolling mechanism just makes it quicker to resolve, you would allocate successful hits front to back but that's front to back of the units under the template and only where the units are of the same type. Otherwise it could get very weird, eg rolling to hit units under a template that it is impossible to allocate to because there are more closer units than there are weapons. It also would be very funky regarding cover etc. It's not like in Epic 40K where the template is simply a measure of how many dice to roll.

The way I've tended to see it played is to split barrage from non-barrage, where you roll the barrage hits first against specific units under the template, and then allocate any hits from other weapons to the remaining units. Yes speed rolling here could change the outcome and I would see it as optional.

When it comes to the range and LoF I am not really sure what I would do. I think I'd probably separate them out completely if I was the one firing (meaning units under the template might be out of range of the other weapons and could not be allocated to) as it seems more "plausible" and is least likely to give me an advantage. As the defender I'd probably leave it up to my opponent so long as they brought it up beforehand.

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Agreed Kyrt. This precise question of mixed barrage and other weapons was raised in the past. Neal's answer was to dice for and allocate the barrage hits first, then allocate the hits from other weapons front to back to those units that have none.

Remember, unlike normal shooting, the hits under the barrage template are applied to the unit diced for. So the 'convenience' is to dice for groups of units of the same type under the barrage, applying any hits gained to those particular units. However, the hit allocation process for normal shooting is intended to spread the hits across all the units front to back. By adopting the above steps this even spread of hits is achieved.

As to different ranges for the different weapons, I believe each weapon is restricted to its particular range. Otherwise, units like the Leman Russ would be able to fire Heavy Bolters up to the range of its Battle Cannon, an obvious nonsense . . .
So you can only shoot the barrage weapon if it is in range to an enemy unit, at which point the template is placed over that unit (and as many other units as possible).

Just on the range point, the reason it is a factor is because you only need to be in range of one unit with each weapon for it to be able to fire. Then in allocation, you just pool all the hits and allocate them front to back across all the enemy units that were in range of at least one of the weapons. Hence it IS possible for heavy bolters to stretch their range, but only if they were in range of at least one unit to begin with.

The difficulty for this thread is how to apply that in a combination of barrage and regular weapons, ie can the units under the template be used as "stretch" targets for the normal weapons.

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