Tactical Command
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Charging into or out of ZoCs
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31237		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  ffoley [ Fri May 06, 2016 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Charging into or out of ZoCs
I know this had been asked before and I read the FAQ again but would appreciate an answer from the gurus as its a bit confusing (thanks):

1) If you enter a ZoC during a charge, are you compelled to enter base-to-base if you have sufficient movement (or can you stop short)?

2) (a) If you start in a ZoC and initiate a charge move are you compelled to enter base-to-base if you have sufficient movement? and if not then:
(b) Are you allowed to move out of the ZoC to e.g. "clip" the same enemy formation ?
Author:  Dave [ Fri May 06, 2016 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
You must BtB if you can.

If you start in it you must BtB if you move and can.
Author:  ffoley [ Fri May 06, 2016 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
thanks - nobody where I am seems to follow those rules
Author:  Dave [ Fri May 06, 2016 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Show them the fourth paragraph in 1.12.3.
Author:  ffoley [ Fri May 06, 2016 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
They know who they are - they may see this and realise the error of their ways :geek


1.12.3
A maximum of two units may move into base contact with each defender. A charging unit that enters a zone of control must move into base contact with the nearest enemy whose zone of control has been entered. Once a unit has been contacted it loses its zone of control for the rest of the assault, allowing other units to move past it.
Author:  StevekCole [ Fri May 06, 2016 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Still think this needs a ruling. Wording is 'unit that enters zone of control' if you're starting in the ZOC you're not technically entering it you're already there so theoretically you could just stay still.
Author:  MrGonzo [ Fri May 06, 2016 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Mh... I stand corrected. I could swear that nobody ever brought this up before but then it might have been to me usually staying out of 5cm. The question came up last night with a scout unit that was within 10cm of my assaulting unit.

The little fine detail clarification of 'starting' in a zone of control would be much appreciated.
Author:  ffoley [ Fri May 06, 2016 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Usually you can avoid ZoC to move into FF position but sometimes e.g. where LOS is blocked it is necessary like when assaulting scout units in area terrain or behind a hill
Author:  Dave [ Fri May 06, 2016 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
MrGonzo wrote:
The little fine detail clarification of 'starting' in a zone of control would be much appreciated.


I had thought we had something, although I might be confusing this with the counter-charge bit. An engaging formation is under no obligation to move, it's just allowed to make one charge move. Although by taking that line or reasoning all of a sudden you can't overwatch an engaging formation that's doesn't move.

Onyx, dptdexys, thoughts on adding a new FAQ for it?
Author:  dptdexys [ Fri May 06, 2016 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Dave wrote:
MrGonzo wrote:
The little fine detail clarification of 'starting' in a zone of control would be much appreciated.


I had thought we had something, although I might be confusing this with the counter-charge bit. An engaging formation is under no obligation to move, it's just allowed to make one charge move. Although by taking that line or reasoning all of a sudden you can't overwatch an engaging formation that's doesn't move.

Onyx, dptdexys, thoughts on adding a new FAQ for it?


isnt it covered by 1.7.3
Quote:
1.7.3 Zones Of Control
All units in Epic have a zone of control that extends 5cm in
every direction from the model. Models mounted on a stand
may measure the zone of control from any model on the stand.
Units may not enter an enemy zone of control while they
move, unless they are undertaking an engage action and use
their charge move to get into base contact with the nearest
enemy unit whose zone of control they have entered. Once a
unit has been contacted by an engaging enemy unit, it loses its
own zone of control for the rest of that engage action
(including the ensuing assault). This will allow other units to
move round it. Units are never allowed to cross directly over
an enemy unit, even if it has lost its zone of control.
If a unit finds itself in an enemy zone of control for any reason,
then it must either charge the enemy or leave the zone of
control when it next takes an action (note that this will require
an action that allows it to charge or move).


it does not state a unit must either take an engage action or move out but it states a unit must charge or move out.

From the FAQ
Quote:
Q: What are the options for a unit that
finds itself in an enemy ZOC at the
start of its activation?
A: If a unit finds itself in an enemy ZOC for
any reason then it must either charge the
enemy or leave the ZOC when it next takes
an action. It cannot choose to remain
stationary and stay in the ZOC, which
means that the formation it belongs to will
have to choose an action that allows the
unit to move away or charge.


Regarding formations staying still for overwatch FAQ
Quote:
Section 1.10: Overwatch
Q: Is a formation that is allowed to
move as part of an action, but which
decides to remain stationary,
considered to be moving for the
purposes of triggering Overwatch fire?
For example, if I take an Engage
action, but don’t move any units as
they are already within firefight range
of the enemy, can my opponent make
an Overwatch attack before the
Assault takes place?
A: Yes, to both the question and the
example. Overwatch is triggered when an
enemy formation ‘completes a move’.
Formations that could move but remain
stationary have still `completed a move’
and are therefore eligable targets.
Author:  Onyx [ Sat May 07, 2016 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Thanks dptdexys!
As usual, you've covered it perfectly.
I don't really see a need for an FAQ.

One point to note is that if a formation starts it's move in an enemy ZoC, it is not forced to leave via the quickest/shortest route. This means it is possible (if there is space) using an Advance, Double or March action to move past the enemy units exerting the ZoC to get to something juicier on the other side.
Author:  Kyrt [ Sat May 07, 2016 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Technically the faqs don't answer the specific question of whether a formation that chooses to engage rather than advance is allowed to leave the ZoC, or if it must choose the charge option. They only say the unit must either charge or leave.
Author:  Onyx [ Sat May 07, 2016 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
If you choose an engage action and are in a ZoC, you must move into base contact with the units exerting the ZoC.

"If a unit finds itself in an enemy zone of control for any reason, then it must either charge the enemy or leave the zone of control when it next takes an action"
I understand that the charge the enemy part is open to interpretation but I consider it fairly obvious that it is referring to the unit exerting the Zoc in the first place.
"and use their charge move to get into base contact with the nearest enemy unit whose zone of control they have entered"
These 2 rules quotes seem to cover it for me.

I have certainly never come across anyone trying to claim any other interpretation before.
Creating an FAQ for this would seem unnecessary.
Author:  Kyrt [ Sat May 07, 2016 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Perhaps I didn't explain fully: the faqs say you must either charge or leave, and that consequently you must take an action that allows you to charge or move. But it doesn't say that if the action you choose is engage, then you must charge and CANNOT leave.
Author:  Dave [ Sat May 07, 2016 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Charging into or out of ZoCs
Ya, last paragraph of 1.7.3 covers starting in ZoC. Either charge it or get out, you can't stay put. My bad.

I went over everything again with regards to Kyrt's point. I can't find anything that says charging is your only option, leaving is still valid when you engage the formation. This is alsk supported by the fact that you're able to engage another enemy formation besides the one you're in the ZoC of.
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