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| Overwatch question, how do you play it? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30879 |
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| Author: | Kapitan Montag [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
So I have a question about overwatch, and I'm not sure how it should be played. Let's say Player A has multiple formations on overwatch, and Player B moves a formation into range of more than one of the formations on overwatch. Does player A have to declare which units are going to fire overwatch first? Or can player A wait and see how the dice roll from the first formation's overwatch fire before deciding to shoot with the other formations? |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I just looked at the rulebook and FAQ with no clear answer, I would say you would have to declare which formations are overwatching first, then resolve all the attacks, as overwatch is a fast action (you can overwatch a formation when it has completed one part of a double move for example) I don't think there would be time to resolve the attack and decide whether you need to fire your second formation or not |
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| Author: | Dave [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I'd agree with that. The language strongly suggests declaring at the same time (end of a move). |
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| Author: | Verjigorm [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
Yeah, I think that's right. I don't think you can resolve an over-watch, then choose to over-watch again, resolve that, and so on. Overwatch is already a pretty powerful action, or so it seems to me, what with it giving cover to infantry in the open and allowing you to interupt an enemy formation. And, everything seems to work like that: Declare, Resolve, Done. Not Declare, Resolve, Declare, Resolve, Declare, Resolve. |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
So the follow up question is, assuming over watching formations declare simultaneously, how many blast markers do you place for coming under fire, and can the moving formation break and flee in between overwatching formations make their attacks? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
Kyrt wrote: So the follow up question is, assuming over watching formations declare simultaneously, how many blast markers do you place for coming under fire, and can the moving formation break and flee in between overwatching formations make their attacks? I'd say place 1 per formation firing but they all fire simultaneously (roll all attacks, then place any hits and then make saving throws) before placing any BMs for casualties or BMs for coming under fire. |
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| Author: | Kapitan Montag [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
dptdexys wrote: Kyrt wrote: So the follow up question is, assuming over watching formations declare simultaneously, how many blast markers do you place for coming under fire, and can the moving formation break and flee in between overwatching formations make their attacks? I'd say place 1 per formation firing but they all fire simultaneously (roll all attacks, then place any hits and then make saving throws) before placing any BMs for casualties or BMs for coming under fire. Yes Kyrt! you read my mind with the follow up question! When it came up in a game we played it how dptdexys suggests- it seemed to make sense, only I realised after that we were going out on a limb rules wise as its not really covered. Nice to see that others would play it a similar way. |
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| Author: | Verjigorm [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I wouldn't resolve all the attacks at once. Each formations attacks should be resolved, completely, before moving to the next formation. |
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| Author: | Verjigorm [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I can't find any instances of combined shooting all being resolved in one pile. The closest thing I could find was the Tau Co-ordinated Fire, which still follows the normal shooting rules. Combining all the firepower at once has the possibility of completely destroying a formation, rather than breaking it and allowing it to withdraw. I don't like that, at all. It doesn't work like any other shooting in the game. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I don't have a problem with that at all. If a formation is getting completely shot to pieces by 2+ formations overwatching it then maybe it shouldn't be moving there to begin with? What I would have a problem with is someone declaring overwatch after another formation has already used it. That allows you to game the rules, breaking a formation with the minimum number of formations and not blowing all your overwatch at once. What you're saying would allow me to break a formation, then potentially allow me to overwatch at it when it's broken as it's making a withdrawal or use it on another formation because I didn't have to declare all the overwatch at once. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
There is no Combined Shooting so you won't find anything on that, Co-Ordianted Fire is a Tau special rule and has nothing to do with overwatch. The rules for overwatch states, Quote: A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults. Waiting for another formation to fire and resolve attacks first is not immediately. As Dave has stated it also sets up very cheesy situations not only the ones which he mentioned but also allowing AVs to be stripped first to remove the -1 on infantry for the next formation and I dislike allowing cheese like this more. |
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| Author: | Verjigorm [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
Dave wrote: I don't have a problem with that at all. If a formation is getting completely shot to pieces by 2+ formations overwatching it then maybe it shouldn't be moving there to begin with? What I would have a problem with is someone declaring overwatch after another formation has already used it. That allows you to game the rules, breaking a formation with the minimum number of formations and not blowing all your overwatch at once. What you're saying would allow me to break a formation, then potentially allow me to overwatch at it when it's broken as it's making a withdrawal or use it on another formation because I didn't have to declare all the overwatch at once. I don't think I made myself clear. Here's what I think should happen: 1) Enemy Formation moves into LOE and Range of three formations on overwatch, triggering overwatch 2) ALL formations that choose to take over-watch fire are declared. 3) Resolve each formations over-watch fire, completely, using the normal shooting rules(as per the fourth paragraph under 1.10). 4) Enemy formation, if still capable(i.e, not dead or broken) can then complete it's action. The rules do not explicitly tell us to resolve all over-watch attacks simultaneously, and they do explicitly tell us to resolve the shooting using the normal rules. Per section 0.0.19, that means each formation needs to resolve it's attacks individually, not as a collective. I don't think you should revolve all the attacks simultaneous, but I also don't think you should be able to declare, resolve, declare, resolve. Now, if the enemy formation triggers over-watch again, such as making a second move, or it's withdrawal move not carrying it out of LOE and Range, then you can declare. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
I still don't understand what you're getting at. If you declare overwatch all at once, and then resolve the shooting one formation at a time allowing for the formation to break after each, what happens if the formation breaks before all the overwatchers got to shoot? |
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| Author: | Verjigorm [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Overwatch question, how do you play it? |
Dave wrote: I still don't understand what you're getting at. If you declare overwatch all at once, and then resolve the shooting one formation at a time allowing for the formation to break after each, what happens if the formation breaks before all the overwatchers got to shoot? They don't get to shoot. This really only matters if the target formation's withdrawal move allows it to leave LOE and Range in one move. Otherwise, the unit is broken, it get's shot again, and probably suffers horrendous casualties. Really, to me, it's just an issue of the rules tell us what we can do. If the rules say to resolve the overwatch shooting as normal shooting, then we should resolve it that way, not resolve it in a manner of our own making. If the rules said to combine all the shooting, then I'd argue that we should combine all the shooting. |
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