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| Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30332 |
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| Author: | Dan 1314 [ Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
Hi, apologies if this question is 1. explained clearly elswhere (I did check, but im not great) 2. So obviously explained in the rules it doesnt need asked. I am currently playing up north, and there are only the two of us playing, so there is a serious danger that we will accidently evolve new rules through mutual misunderstanding. Anyways. When firing a barrage, we understand that units sustaining get a +1 to hit, but are they effected by the -1 to hit for shooting units in cover; if so what is classed as cover? This debate came about when we were seeing barrages at troops in buildings (we played that as -1), rhinos in ruins (much arguments), and after seeing the ignore cover rule for some types of barrage weapons (discussion over if this simply meant troops in buildings couldnt use cover saves or if it hinted at other effects of cover). Sorry to ask what may be an obvious question. - Thanks. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
The -1 to hit is applied to all units in cover, whether they are grotz or a warlord titan, and no exception for barrages, its usually a 5min warmup issue whether you have to physically be 'in' the cover, or just touching it The ignore cover rule means there is no -1 to hit penalty, nor may infantry take cover saves against hits sustained from the weapon |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
You might also what to read the second to last question under Barrages: http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#barrages It's somewhat related and helps to explain how rolling to-hit for barrages works. |
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| Author: | StevekCole [ Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
A sub question to this which came up the other night. Where a WE, AV, etc is touching a building but obviously not in it (as can't be) gets hit by an indirect fire barrage is it in cover? I'd have thought no but we couldn't see a clear ruling? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
StevekCole wrote: A sub question to this which came up the other night. Where a WE, AV, etc is touching a building but obviously not in it (as can't be) gets hit by an indirect fire barrage is it in cover? I'd have thought no but we couldn't see a clear ruling? No it is not "in cover" so does not get the -1 to be hit. I think a few players seem to confuse the infantry touching an AV or WE for the -1 with anything touching terrain getting -1. If players agree to play that way then that's fine but touching terrain for -1 is not a rule (terrain obscuring view is). Quote: 1.8.2 Cover To Hit Modifiers Units that are in terrain that is tall enough to at least partially obscure them from an attacker’s view receive a -1 to hit modifier when being shot at (see 1.9.5). The to hit modifier also applies if intervening terrain obscures the target partially from view Quote: Armoured Vehicles:
Infantry count as being in cover and receive the -1 to hit modifier (but no cover save) if they are touching an armoured vehicle or war engine, to represent their ability to take cover from enemy fire by crouching behind the vehicle |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
You can play that touching terrain = in it, but it's good to think of the principle: you can't get the positives of cover without getting the negatives. So for infantry if you want the -1 then potentially you can be seen by enemy on the other side. For vehicles it also means you would be subject to dangerous terrain tests. Obviously vehicles can't enter buildings so they can't ever be "in them", so touching doesn't mean anything as Dptdexys explained. Personally I think it's best to not try and count touching terrain as anything special with regards to cover as it can get too confusing and adds potential for disagreement, but "when are units in cover" is a topic for the 5 minute warmup. One last thing though about touching terrain: I do find it can be useful for the mechanics of pop-up. Touching terrain means you're 0cm from it, so it is impossible to get closer without being inside the terrain. If two units are both touching terrain they they are by definition equidistant from it, thus if one pops up and shoots the other the rules say they can see but take a -1. This principle can stop any debate and fiddly measuring when trying to work out if units are visible or not. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barrage to hit / Ignore cover. |
Kyrt wrote: For vehicles it also means you would be subject to dangerous terrain tests. . I think this was what was agreed on in a previous discussion about WE/AVs touching terrain, if you want the -1 for terrain cover (hull down is its own rule) then you have to take terrain tests for moving in and out of it. Also as Kyrt has explained, touching terrain with WE/AVs can still be beneficial for the skimmer/pop up rule. |
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