I usually remind people we're playing a game rather than a simulation.....
(a game where genetically engineered superhumans run up and punch tanks with electric boxing gloves to boot)
| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
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| Transports? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30207 |
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| Author: | Adeptus [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Transports? |
What's the reasoning behind only allowing transports to carry units from their own formation? Surely a rule that transports can only carry units from their own formation EXCEPT in situations where no appropriate units were selected before the game would make sense? Basically so that Rhinos could only transport the units in their own formation, but Landraiders (selected as a formation in their own right) could carry anyone? It seems a bit off that my Termies have to footslog along while there's an empty Landraider chugging along right next to them... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
If I had to guess it probably had something to do with ease/speed of play. If you'd rather have them be able to, just use a similar process to WE transports. http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/tourna ... ar-engines |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
This style of question on the transport rule comes up from time to time. AFAIK, the original intention was for the transport capacity for a given formation to be purely for that formation; hence the requirement when carrying troops from a different formation that the formation being carried must fit entirely inside the (single) transport unit. This prevents a partially damaged formation of Tacticals from picking up some friendly devs / termies etc Unfortunately the consequence of this particular ruling is that a Land Raider formation cannot normally pick up other friends like the terminators. A special rule was introduced for a formation of THawk Transporters to allow them to ignore this prohibition. It does raise the esoteric question whether a tactical formation with a spare Rhino can pick up the remaining two Devastators or Scouts from another formation (which I believe that they can) though this has never been formally discussed. (I cannot remember it being done in-game either) |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
from the rulebook, section 1.7.5 (emphasis mine) "Many formations include transport vehicles that can be used to carry other units that belong to the same formation. The number and type of units that can be carried will be listed on the transport vehicle’s datasheet. Transport vehicles may only carry units from their own formation" so, in Ginger's example this could not happen |
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| Author: | Blip [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
Yeah, this winds up my historical wargaming buddies who always want to be able to detach their transports and hide them when they're not in use. Likewise use them to go rescue other troops who are in trouble. Think it's just for game simplicity. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
I usually remind people we're playing a game rather than a simulation..... (a game where genetically engineered superhumans run up and punch tanks with electric boxing gloves to boot) |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
As Ginger stated this comes up from time to time. Usually it is explained why it has not been allowed, we then get lots of suggestions to cover specific situations and exceptions for allowing/disallowing in certain situations and we end up with a mess of a rule. Allowing transports to pick up units from other formations throws up a lot of bad/gamey/cheesy situations. You can end up with super silly assault formations from remnants of formations. Do the formations become 1 formation or do they remain separate, both become extremely cheesy in the right situations. Do you limit who can be picked up, can activated units be transported or do you only allow un-activated formations to be picked up. Again both have the ability to be abused. In some lists we have different initiative values, whose value do you use. Can units picked up use their special abilities. Even if limited to formations that have transport abilities which started without troops the above are still problems and we then get players asking why some transports can pick up troops but the same transports that have lost their troops cannot. It also is not seen as very realistic. That said there is nothing stopping any player agreeing with opponents and allowing this for their games or even having a scenario where this is a special rule. |
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| Author: | junkstar [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
The Rhino that may be spare in my opinion cant be used to collect all and sundry, due to the possibility of coming out of unit coherency. If it splits from a unit to join another unit, and for instance the unit its joining is broken, would that make the broken formation rallied? Or do you merge say the Squad from the Rhino into the Squad needing transport, which would bring down the number activations and possibly pick up blast markers for that unit? However if a Thunderhawk has disembarked its formation and flown off the table, I cant see a problem of it going to the aide/rescue of a unit. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:56 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? | |||
The way it worked in SM1 and the way we did it ... is once a transport disembarks it's troops. The Carriers become separate units. The SM2 rule where carriers had to stay within 6mm of the Infantry, save for if the infantry moves thru woods, etc., but the carriers still had to stay as close as possible. This rule is not realistic or in many cases unworkable, IMO. Again, I was a Mech Infantry Cdr '87-'89, with an M113 Company. Yes, the M113 is a doppelganger for a Rhino ! So as I said originally, once a unit dismounts from their Rhinos, Raiders, etc., those AFVs act/become a separate unit. And the rules apply as such. Now there is really nothing wrong with keeping you carriers within 6mm. If the terrain and situation permits. However the way is works for real, and as we play it in the game. Is the carrier dismounts its troops in the closest covered & conceal position near the Objective. The Carriers with their onboard weapons systems, Bolters, cannons of various types, etc. fires supporting fire from cover. To suppress the enemy and support the Infantry's maneuver to the Objective. So it can be done with very little changes to the rules ... you can do this ... My 2 Cents ... 
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| Author: | junkstar [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? |
dptdexys wrote: As Ginger stated this comes up from time to time. Usually it is explained why it has not been allowed, we then get lots of suggestions to cover specific situations and exceptions for allowing/disallowing in certain situations and we end up with a mess of a rule. Allowing transports to pick up units from other formations throws up a lot of bad/gamey/cheesy situations. You can end up with super silly assault formations from remnants of formations. Do the formations become 1 formation or do they remain separate, both become extremely cheesy in the right situations. Do you limit who can be picked up, can activated units be transported or do you only allow un-activated formations to be picked up. Again both have the ability to be abused. In some lists we have different initiative values, whose value do you use. Can units picked up use their special abilities. Even if limited to formations that have transport abilities which started without troops the above are still problems and we then get players asking why some transports can pick up troops but the same transports that have lost their troops cannot. It also is not seen as very realistic. That said there is nothing stopping any player agreeing with opponents and allowing this for their games or even having a scenario where this is a special rule. They could become intermingled but then the coherency card comes into play |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:41 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Transports? | ||||
Here is my favorite Rule : Do What Works For You ...  Followed by : GW won't send a Kill Tm or Commissars to purge your game if you don't play by their rules ... And if you wondered where GW got the idea for the Chimera ...
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