| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
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| Disrupt http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26176 |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Disrupt |
I don't believe this is treated in the rules nor in the FAQ, so here goes: Can a disrupt that has several types (AP/AT) weapon be used in an form unsuited to its target to inflict a BM? For example, imagine a AP3+/AT4+ Disrupt weapon, that shoots at a Leman Russ company, could the player choose to use the AP value to inflict more BMs? By extension, can a disrupt barrage like the Nightspinner array also choose to use a different column so as to inflict more BMs? |
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| Author: | captPiett [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
Pretty sure this is not possible, as you need to roll a hit to inflict the blast marker for a weapon with the disrupt ability. If you have an AP-only weapon, it can lay a BM, but as it cannot actually inflict a hit on an AV, it would not inflict any further BMs on a purely AV formation. |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
Rulebook wrote: AP hits can only be allocated against infantry units, and AT hits may only be allocated against armoured vehicles. So for me, even if you successfully rolled against using the AP value, if there are no infantry to allocate to then there are no hits and therefore no disrupt blast markers. BMs aren't placed for rolling above a given score, they are placed for hits. For barrage weapons like the night spinner, you roll directly to hit specific units under the template of course. On a related (but different) question though, if there is only 1 unit within LOS and you score 3 hits, how many BMs do you award? 1, because 1 unit was hit 3, because there were 3 hits |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
I had understood that shooting with AP or AT was freely chosen, only the hit allocation took into account the target. Perhaps this is not well translated in the french version of the rules? @Kyrt: In your opinion, a non-allocated disrupt hit does not inflict a BM, correct? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
I think this was answered in this thread the last time you asked this. http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... t&start=15 I think E&C answered it. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
Thats what I thought, but I have since seen at least one thread where the Disrupt on fire warriors was mentioned as being able to affect AVs. Could we get a definitive answer from Onyx? Edit: precised at least one thread, as I did not find the other threads after a simple search on disrupt. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
LordotMilk wrote: Thats what I thought, but I have since seen several threads where the Disrupt on fire warriors was mentioned as being able to affect AVs. i must have missed those threads, could you post a link to save me searching for them, cheers. |
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| Author: | captPiett [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
Ok, so you shoot at a Leman Russ company with an AP-only weapon and lay a BM. How would you inflict further BMs? Rolling the to-hit for AP on an AV? That does not make sense. Disrupt needs to actually hit something to make its effect felt. You cannot score a hit on an AV with AP. It's pretty unclear to me how there could be a gray area here. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
dptdexys wrote: LordotMilk wrote: Thats what I thought, but I have since seen several threads where the Disrupt on fire warriors was mentioned as being able to affect AVs. i must have missed those threads, could you post a link to save me searching for them, cheers. This one for example: http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... upt#p48091 Middle of page, Glyng mentions Fire warrior pulse carabines as able to BM a vehicle target. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
captPiett wrote: Ok, so you shoot at a Leman Russ company with an AP-only weapon and lay a BM. How would you inflict further BMs? Rolling the to-hit for AP on an AV? That does not make sense. Disrupt needs to actually hit something to make its effect felt. You cannot score a hit on an AV with AP. It's pretty unclear to me how there could be a gray area here. My understanding of the rules is you can score hits with AP weapons on AV targets, but those hits cannot be allocated. My understanding, confirmed by E&C's post referred to earlier, is that those hits would not benefit from the disrupt effect because they could not be allocated. Some other posters seem to think, unless I misread them, that my understanding was incorrect. Thus, I am checking. My opinion, which is quite irrelevant at this stage, especially considering no rules amendments are being considered, is that disrupt hits that are not allocated should not benefit from their BM placement effect. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
if targeting a formation with a weapon type that cannot score any hits, you lay a BM for the formation coming under fire, but then do not roll any attack dice, so cannot inflict any disrupt hits.... I fail to see any confusion myself but maybe it's a translation thing? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
LordotMilk wrote: Middle of page, Glyng mentions Fire warrior pulse carabines as able to BM a vehicle target. Thanks for the link, saved me a lot of time trying to find it. Here's GlynG's post that I think is causing the confusion. Quote: It's not their ideal target but your Fire Warriors have AP5+ Disrupt Pulse Carbines, which they can use to put a blast marker on a vehicle target even if they can't damage it. You'd ideally make sure the target was marker lit to get the +1 to hit. How do you transport your Fire Warriors? Devilfish? Orca? Seeker Missiles from your tanks should hurt Falcons, if you get them markerlit (marker lights are really important to play well with the Tau). The first line is possibly what most would agree with, AP can be used to lay a single BM for the target formation coming under fire. The highlighted 2nd sentence does look as though GlynG interprets the possibility of causing disrupt hits on AV's from AP hits and I can understand the confusion. Hopefully he was just being general in the advise about markerlights but he would have to confirm or deny that. |
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| Author: | fredmans [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
Without reference to the rules, which I'll do later this evening, I would say that Basic rule: When shooting, you roll your AP or AT value dependant on the target's unit type. AP vs Inf, AT vs AV (and WE). Edit: Special rule: LV is a special rule, where LV units can be affected by both types of hits. Basic rule: When you choose to fire at a unit, it receives a BM. This is independent of rolling to hit. The BM is placed due to a unit coming under fire. This is the "loophole" used by AP-carrying formations laying BM on vehicle formations. The interpretative gist: When an AP formation shoot at a pure AV or WE formation, there are no to-hit-rolls being made. The BM is placed due to the choice of action. Gist Edit: This is in agreement with kyussinchain's interpretation. /Fredmans |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
from 1.1.3 unit datasheets Quote: Firepower: The numbers here represent how effective the weapon is when it shoots. Firepower comes in two ‘flavours’: Anti-personnel (abbreviated to AP) and Anti- tank (abbreviated to AT). AP fire is used against infantry targets and AT fire against armoured vehicles. A weapon that has both an AP and an AT value may choose to use either one when it attacks, but may not use both in the same turn. highlighted what most see as the relevant part. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disrupt |
And from 1.9.3 and 1.9.4 on shooting procedure Quote: 1.9.3 Shooting Procedure You place a single BM immediately for coming under fire, but as others say you only place further BMs for disrupt hits obtained. If you have AP weaponry it can only cause further hits on AP targets.
This is a summary of the shooting procedure. We’ll work through it step–by–step in the rules that follow. I – Place one Blast marker on the target formation. II – Roll to hit. III – Allocate hits, make saving throws and remove casualties. IV – Place additional Blast markers for casualties and check to see if the enemy formation is broken. 1.9.4 Place Blast Marker The target formation automatically receives a Blast marker as long as at least one attacking unit can shoot at the formation. |
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