Sorry for the snippy tone in that last post, but I was a bit shocked at the wrong answers.
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| Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25397 |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
This one came up in a game against brokenbayonet last night, thanks to my all-Fearless Death Guard list... A Fearless formation gets beaten in combat, breaks but chooses to stay put. Another formation now wants to shoot into the combat (it doesn't really matter whose formation). What happens, can they shoot into combat? I know formations that start their activation in ZoC have to engage or move out of ZoC, but do they still count as being in combat or is it just 'a bunch of intermingled stands that happen to be in the same area' with no effect on shooting? |
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| Author: | Ulrik [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
Just a bunch of intermingled stands. There's no concept of "locked in combat" in the EA rules. |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
Now I remember the other question, also to do with broken formations... 2. When a broken formation is charged, can it counter-charge? If not, does it make any difference if the formation is Fearless? On that subject, 3. Has anyone compiled a list of exactly what a broken Fearless formation can and can't do? We keep trying to piece it together but with the rules for broken formations being scattered across different rules sections we find it hard. I know they: Cannot be activated. Cannot give supporting fire. Cannot hold or contest objectives. Can fight 'normally' if charged. Suffer no penalties for losing an assault apart from staying broken. Can try to regroup in the end phase. Can choose not to withdraw but if they do withdraw then each move must end more than 5cm from unbroken enemy formations or they die. Any more? |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
Ulrik wrote: Just a bunch of intermingled stands. There's no concept of "locked in combat" in the EA rules. Thanks. Looks like we were too hung up on other games systems. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
Broken units can countercharge Looking at your list - if an already broken formation loses an assault it is destroyed - they have to finish their withdrawal after being broken more than 15cm from an enemy formation |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
Dies if within 15cm of enemy, not 5cm. Otherwise looks all correct. |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
The list is for broken Fearless units, not broken normal units. They aren't destroyed by being beaten: 'Units that are Fearless are immune to damage from losing an assault (both the additional hits and being wiped out if already broken)' And they aren't destroyed for ending a withdrawal move within 15cm: 'and if the unit elects to withdraw it will be destroyed only if it ends its move within 5cm of the enemy rather than 15cm.' |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
Sorry for the snippy tone in that last post, but I was a bit shocked at the wrong answers.
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - shooting into ongoing combats |
IJW Wartrader wrote: Now I remember the other question, also to do with broken formations... 2. When a broken formation is charged, can it counter-charge? If not, does it make any difference if the formation is Fearless? Yes it can counter charge. A broken Fearless formation is treat exactly the same as a non-fearless broken formation with the exceptions of the 5cm wipe out after a withdrawal instead of 15cm and not being hacked down. Quote: Can choose not to withdraw but if they do withdraw then each move must end more than 5cm from unbroken enemy formations or they die. If they choose to withdraw then they have to end more than 5 cm from any enemy formation not just unbroken formations. To add to your original question, your opponent can use their follow-up move (from winning the assault) to move away from the Fearless troops (withdrawal moves are made before the winners consolidate). |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
True, it's all formations not just unbroken ones. Doh. |
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
Next up, mixed formations of Fearless and normal units, which comes up often as my Eldar run a lot of Wraithguard and Wraithlords with their Guardians... To check that I've got this right, with a mixed formation: 1. The amount they lose an assault by becomes unsaveable hits allocated to the non-Fearless stands. 2. After the second withdrawal move when breaking, you have to check the distance to enemy formations stand-by-stand to find out if they're destroyed, 15cm for the normal stands and 5cm for the Fearless ones? I'd originally misread the rule as having the formation destroyed rather than stands destroyed... 3. If they lose an assault the formation breaks and the non-Fearless stands have to withdraw but Fearless stands could potentially stay in place if coherency allowed it? 4. If they lose an assault while broken, all the normal stands would be destroyed, leaving the Fearless ones? 5. Once the formation is broken, further blast markers become unsaveable hits that can only be allocated to the non-Fearless stands. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
IJW Wartrader wrote: Next up, mixed formations of Fearless and normal units, which comes up often as my Eldar run a lot of Wraithguard and Wraithlords with their Guardians... correctTo check that I've got this right, with a mixed formation: 1. The amount they lose an assault by becomes unsaveable hits allocated to the non-Fearless stands. Quote: 2. After the second withdrawal move when breaking, you have to check the distance to enemy formations stand-by-stand to find out if they're destroyed, 15cm for the normal stands and 5cm for the Fearless ones? I'd originally misread the rule as having the formation destroyed rather than stands destroyed... correctQuote: 3. If they lose an assault the formation breaks and the non-Fearless stands have to withdraw but Fearless stands could potentially stay in place if coherency allowed it? I believe so, I've certainly done this before!Quote: 4. If they lose an assault while broken, all the normal stands would be destroyed, leaving the Fearless ones? CorrectQuote: 5. Once the formation is broken, further blast markers become unsaveable hits that can only be allocated to the non-Fearless stands. correct
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| Author: | IJW Wartrader [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stupid rules questions - Fearless Questions |
Ta. |
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