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| disrupt question http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24362 |
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| Author: | PAR [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | disrupt question |
hi all a nurgle titan fired an scored hits on a ork war band with disruptive shooting. orks take the hits on grotz (normally ignoring the blast markers caused by there removal) would the disrupt still cause blast markers although all the hit grotz died ? PAR |
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| Author: | carlos [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
From the FAQ: Q: Do hits stopped by Shields still cause an additional BM if the weapon had the Disrupt ability? Similarly do hits on Grot units by Disrupt weapons cause an additional BM? A: Shields and Grots negate the BM caused by their destruction. This means that they do negate the BM inflicted by Disrupt weapons. The same would hold true for any unit or effect, such as Chaos daemons, that prevent a Blast Marker when a target is destroyed. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
I do believe however that if the grotz were hit, yet survived (ie from cover save) then the disrupt hits DO cause BMs |
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| Author: | PAR [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
cheers for the quick answers PAR |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
kyussinchains wrote: I do believe however that if the grotz were hit, yet survived (ie from cover save) then the disrupt hits DO cause BMs Nope. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
is that just nid specific then? I assumed the rules were the same |
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| Author: | carlos [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
There's no nid specific rule for Disrupt, except for gaunts behaving in the same way as grots. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
according to the EUK codex (which I assume is copied from the E:A rulebook) "Formations that include at least one Ork unit don’t receive blast markers for Grotz units that are killed" if they're hit and not killed then surely the BM would be generated? (unless this has been clarified in a FAQ?) |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
a quick check reveals that the wording in the E:A rulebook is the same..... I'm pretty sure we've always played that if the disrupt hits don't kill the gaunt/grots then a BM is generated as normal (in the case of the orks it can be explained by a bunch of terrified grots running around getting under the feet of the orks) |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
the GW FAQ is frustratingly unclear too: "Q: Do hits stopped by Shields still cause an additional BM if the weapon had the Disrupt ability? Similarly do hits on Grot units by Disrupt weapons cause an additional BM? A: Shields and Grots negate the BM caused by an attack, but are lost themselves in the process. This means that they do negate the BM inflicted by Disrupt weapons. The same would hold true for any unit, such as Chaos daemons, that do not generate a Blast Marker when they are destroyed. In effect a Blast Marker is placed either when the hit is scored or the damage inflicted, but then the BM is removed when the shield goes down or the Grot is killed. Note that in both cases there is no save allowed against the hit, so any hit will automatically result in the shield or Grot being lost." assuming grotz never have a save is a bit silly..... although by the example cited there, the BM is placed, then removed when the grot is killed, if the grot survives the hit, then surely the BM remains? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
kyussinchains wrote: I do believe however that if the grotz were hit, yet survived (ie from cover save) then the disrupt hits DO cause BMs Correct, from the FAQ. (highlighted relevant part) Quote: Q: Do hits stopped by Shields still cause an additional BM if the weapon had the Disrupt ability? Similarly do hits on Grot units by Disrupt weapons cause an additional BM? A: Shields and Grots negate the BM caused by an attack, but are lost themselves in the process. This means that they do negate the BM inflicted by Disrupt weapons. The same would hold true for any unit, such as Chaos daemons, that do not generate a Blast Marker when they are destroyed. In effect a Blast Marker is placed either when the hit is scored or the damage inflicted, but then the BM is removed when the shield goes down or the Grot is killed. Note that in both cases there is no save allowed against the hit, so any hit will automatically result in the shield or Grot being lost. So any unit (or void shield/power field) that normally negates a BM when it dies (goes down) keeps the BM if it survives. IIRC reasoning at the time of discussion was that grots/'Guants (making cover saves) and daemons etc that survived would still be disrupted from the attack even though other units in the formation don't care if they die. (Epic-UK tyranids should be affected in the same way but the E-UK rules committee when asked about this previously stated that the 'gaunts that survive a disrupt attack don't generate BM's, so for me that list plays it differently to others.) Holofileds are a bit different, if the save is made then the BM is negated, reasoning being the attack has landed where the Titan isn't so a disrupt hit wouldn't affect it as it didn't hit the titan but where the attackers thought the titan was. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
Quote: assuming grotz never have a save is a bit silly..... although by the example cited there, the BM is placed, then removed when the grot is killed, if the grot survives the hit, then surely the BM remains? Huh, been playing that wrong for a while. |
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| Author: | carlos [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
I'll play it the E-UK rules committee way, thanks. If a narrative justification is needed... "Gaunts and demons won't be shaken up by the disrupt hit because their simple brains are not capable of caring about such things as loud bangs and what not" |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
E-UK still take BM for all other units except 'gaunts although I'm sure they (or all I've seen using them) now play that way with them too.I asked them during playtesting about the disrupt ruling IIRC, as it came up during a few games. I'd be happy to play with no BM on any unit that doesn't take them when they die as long as we go the whole hog and keep the part of the FAQ which say's they automatically die when hit. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: disrupt question |
carlos wrote: "Gaunts and demons won't be shaken up by the disrupt hit because their simple brains are not capable of caring about such things as loud bangs and what not" Problem with that for me though , is it's the other units in the formation which ignore the BM when they die not the grots/gaunts or daemons themselves that ignore it. |
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