Tactical Command
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Placing subsequent blast templates
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23000		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Placing subsequent blast templates
Hello All

I believe I know the answer, but to clarify for my gaming group could we please determine the legality of placing subsequent blast templates.

It is a given the first blast template must be placed to cover as many units of the target formation as possible provided line of sight and range is satisfied. If there are multiple positions where an equal number of units in the same formation can be hit, the shooter chooses where to place the first template.

Now, it is my belief that subsequent templates must touch a template already laid and target units of the target formation.

My opponent chose to interpret the rules as the subsequent templates could be placed targeting units of another formation, ignoring units from the target formation which had not yet been targeted but could be targeted if chosen.

Could I please get clarification on this?

Thanks
Author:  Borka [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Yeah you're reading it right! :)
You have to place subsequent templates so that they also maximise hits on the first formations. The rules for extra templates read

Quote:
Extra Barrage Templates: Large barrages may receive extra Barrage templates. The Barrage table will tell you if a
barrage receives any extra Barrage templates. Place any extra templates so that they touch the first template that
was placed, and so that no templates overlap. All units under the templates are attacked with the barrage’s to hit
values. Note that once the first template has been placed, the attacker may choose where to place the additional
templates, as long as they are touching the first template, and no line of fire, placement or range restrictions apply
(see below).


My blue text
The see below text is "using barrage templates" in which we can read

Quote:
In addition, templates must be placed in such a way as to
get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines of fire and
range. This stops players ‘sniping’ at important units with artillery.


But it also says that you can place it over several formations so basically if you can maximise on the target formation and also hit other formations then you're good to go! So the first formation can't be ignored:)
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
does this put the theorectical limit for a barrage at 6 plates? even if you have more, you can't place them following the rules.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Seven, including the center.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
facepalm.
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
It's almost like the table only goes up to three templates for a reason. :P
Author:  Edgar-San [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
I just had a thought - If you place the second template over units which are out of sight (e.g round the corner of a building) are those units considered being in cover (-1 to hit)? This came up the other day as 'at least half the model is obscured by terrain' as stated in the hull down rules. I like this interpritation as Gargants shooting round coners always bothered me. If those guys are at least harder to hit, it makes more sense.

What do you guys think?
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
you think the gargant is actually aiming where the shells land?
Author:  Man of kent [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Yep, both me and EdgarSan would love a definitive answer as to whether units "out of line of sight" hit by a stray extra blast template count as in cover or not. It`s something that happens regulalrly in our games...I do have a penchant for Supa Stompas right now...
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Remember direct fire ordinance isn't shooting in a straight line, but is rather lobbed like other barrages. the only difference is that the targeting and fire coordination ability means they can only hit things they can see. knowing the enemy is partly behind high ground or a frest means you can walk your barrage behind terrain even if you can't see the targets. THere's also the question of where the blast is coning from - if you're not actually in cover, chances are that at least one shell will land with an unobstructed path to you. At least that's always been my interpretation/justification.

Long story short, unless they are actually in cover, they don't get the mod.
Author:  Dave [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
What SG said, just remember to roll separately for units in cover/concealment. If a template covers 5 Boyz (1 in the open, 2 touching an AV, and 3 in cover) we normally roll 1, 2 at a -1 and 3 dice at a -1 for each group, roll to save and then remove closest to for casualties.
Author:  Edgar-San [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Let say you have 3 tanks on the ridge of a hill (hull down) and one behind it. You are saying that you roll 3 dice at -1 to hit and one with no penalty?

So having a tank out of sight makes you more vulnerable to attack?

Also, wouldn't you have to decide if you are attacking units in cover or not and then apply the penalty to everyone if you want to include units in cover?
Author:  Dave [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Edgar-San wrote:
Let say you have 3 tanks on the ridge of a hill (hull down) and one behind it. You are saying that you roll 3 dice at -1 to hit and one with no penalty?


Unless a vehicle was actually in cover I wouldn't apply the -1 to hit. I'd think of it as the explosion being so big that any directional cover is negated.

Quote:
Also, wouldn't you have to decide if you are attacking units in cover or not and then apply the penalty to everyone if you want to include units in cover?


Not for barrage, you're effectively rolling to hit separately for everything under the templates. To speed that up you can roll for them in groups though.
Author:  Man of kent [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
In short hainvg no line of sight doesn`t apply a -1 to hit to barrage shots that have "gone round the corner"?

Yes?
Author:  Borka [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placing subsequent blast templates
Man of kent wrote:
In short hainvg no line of sight doesn`t apply a -1 to hit to barrage shots that have "gone round the corner"?

Yes?


Yeah that's the way I read the rules. There is no mention of a cover modifier for units that are shot at indirectly without line of site for instance. This is sort of the same thing. I'd asume the shots are fired with a high trajectory like it's described for indirect weapons.

cheers
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