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Eldar list (10.3)
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Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
I dont visit the Epic-Armageddon Playtesters Forum any more, as I don't have the time, and don't like its layout.

Anyway, has there been anything said regarding the new Eldar list? ?

I have finally got round to getting it printed off so I could go over it.

Some points I have to query are:

- 1 - How is the Avatar and COTYK supposed to be based? ?
Is it the Avatar and 1 exarch stand?
Or are they all together? ?
Would this unit not get blown away instantly?

- 2 - What's the deal with the Guardians and platform? ?
7 figures plus a platform per stand? ?
That would be large.

- 3 - Why do jet bikes not have an armour save? ?
They are one of the toughest units in an Eldar 40K army (T4 3+ save). It seems odd they dont have any save at all now.

- 4 - Why are Warp Spiders armour 3+?
It?seems odd.

- 5 - What happened to the Cobra's ability to shoot through void and power fields? ?
And how did it get its' huge range?

- 6 - Does the Phoenix Bomber have 2 Eldar missile launchers? (1 under each wing as per 40K)

- 7 - Why are the Phoenix and Vampires the same cost?

- 8 - Where is the Distort cannon for the Phantom?

If these have already been addressed in the Vault I apologise, and would anyone please point me in the right direction?

Ta,
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
>> 1-How is the Avatar and COTYK supposed to be based? ?Is it the Avatar and 1 exarch stand? ?Or are they all together? ?Would this unit not get blown away instantly?


One stand with Avatar and a handful of Exarchs. It is a WE with DC 3, 3+ armor, invulnerable save. So, despite damage it always takes 3 BM to suppress and it takes an average of ~7 non-MW hits to kill it or 3.5 MW hits. It's not the toughest unit, but it's fairly durable, free, and very effective in assaults.

>> 2-What's the deal with the guardains and platform? ?7 figures plus a platform per stand? ?That would be large.

Um, yeah. I don't care for it, but that's a single squad in 40K (5 guardian minimum, + 2 crew).

>> 3-Why do jet bikes not have an armour save? They are one of the toughest units in an Eldar 40K army (T4 3+save) seems odd they dont have any save at all now.
>> 4- Why are Warp Spiders armour 3+. It?seems odd.

It's based not just on toughness and armor but on how the unit remains combat-effective. Taking out a couple bikes is not that much harder than taking out a couple Warp Spiders, but afterwards, the WS are still a viable squad. The bikes aren't. I do think the bikes should have a 6+ save, though.

>> 5- What happened to the Cobra's ability to shoot through void and power fields? And how did it get its huge range?

Nothing bypasses shields anymore. If you want to hit something and not worry about shield, you have to physically pass through them to CC a titan. Personally, I think this is a good thing. Cobras are quite "Billy-badass" anyway.

>> 6-Does the Phoenix Bomber have 2 Eldar missile launchers? (1 under each wing as per 40K)
>> 7-why are the Pheonix and Vampires the same cost?

The weapons may have been added. I'm not sure. There was a discussion about the relative worth of these units and Jervis clarified/changed some stuff.

>> 8-Where is the Distort cannon for the Phantom?

Same old song from Jervis. Blah, blah, blah, limited miniature range, blah blah blah, Section 8, blah, blah, blah.

I hope that helps.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Shadow-Hunter,

I don't get out to the E-A Forums that much now either.

- 2 - What's the deal with the Guardians and platform? ?
7 figures plus a platform per stand? ?
That would be large.


Jervis has stated that the option would still be to either base them conventionally or to make a larger base with the platform included.

I can't even imagine the studio minis being painted as these larger Eldar units.

I've actually thought about making some myself, but that's only because I have so many Eldar that it would be something new to do.

It would take a Warmaster 20x40mm base for sure!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Thanks so far guys.

I've heard of these Warmaster bases, but never seen any. I might have to lay my hands on some.

I do have some more questions:

A- Why does only the Phoenix get an invulnerable save?

B- A Vampire can transport 6 Wraith guard. How do you do that, when they come in 4's and have ?either Wraith Lords or Wave Serpents with them?

C- Do Harlequins lose their save when tranfered to jetbikes?

D- How do you include the support weapon platform Vibro Cannon? The Guardian stands already have a scatter laser.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
>> A- Why does only the Phoenix get an invulnerable save?


Apparently, in 40K it has some sort of shield.

>> B- A Vampire can transport 6 Wraith guard. How do you do that, when they come in 4's and have ?either Wraith Lords or Wave Serpents with them?

The statline reflects what the unit is capable of, but that does not mean all those options are available in the GT army lists. For example, Land Raiders are capable of transporting tactical marines, but there is no way to actually mount tactical marines in the LR using the GT list. Same thing here.

>> C- Do Harlequins lose their save when tranfered to jetbikes?

Nope. Nor do they lose the teleport ability. I can't see any reason to ever field them as anything but bikes unless you've got some really serious terrain to take advantage of, i.e. a scenario.

>> D- How do you include the support weapon platform Vibro Cannon? The Guardian stands already have a scatter laser.

I'm not sure what you are asking here. If you want a support weapon, you remove the Guardian stands from the formation and replace them with a support weapon stand.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Ooops, yep, you're quite right regarding the support platform. I missread it.

About the flyers, in 40K they all have the save (as a matter of interest, the super heavy tanks have them too). They are very useful too. My Scorpion survived a massive game unhurt with very lucky 4+ rolls.
Author:  dafrca [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Quote (Shadow Hunter @ 25 2003 June,02:32)
- 2 - What's the deal with the Guardians and platform? ?
7 figures plus a platform per stand? ?
That would be large.


I plan to make a test stand just to see how bad it is. However, I will say, I do not like the idea of a stand that large. Unless I *love* the way it looks, I'll be opting for the five to a stand format.

Dafrca
Author:  dafrca [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Quote (nealhunt @ 25 2003 June,07:50)
>> 8-Where is the Distort cannon for the Phantom?


Same old song from Jervis. Blah, blah, blah, limited miniature range, blah blah blah, Section 8, blah, blah, blah. - Neal.


You say this like it is not a good answer.

Dafrca
Author:  stormseer [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
I saw on the Vault forums that the Eldar list was heading for more of a Biel-tan feel instead of Ulthwe (grr)... Can anyone give me some more dtails on this....?  ???
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Sure.

Biel Tan is more of a generic Eldar craftworld, for lack of a better term. ?Given that the initial setting is intended to be Armageddon, they are the ones most likely to be involved in an Ork/Human confrontation, and they are closer to Armageddon geographically.

Those factors versus the specialized psyker/anti-chaos/Eye-of-Terror-skirting bent of Ulthwe makes them a beetter choice for the first, vanilla Eldar list.

As far as flavor changes to the army list, they were minor.

1) Avatar gained Court of the Young Kings, so he/they are tougher.

2) The Farseer Council was removed as a formation.

3) Access to aspect warrior choices was increased.

There have been other list changes since then, but they were mechanics/playtest driven rather than background driven.

Nothing exciting, imho, though I did like the increased access to aspects.
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Quote (dafrca @ 26 2003 June,17:24)
You say this like it is not a good answer.

Heh.  I'm beginning to think more and more that it is an incredibly lame answer.  Last time I checked, every field artillery blister for the Eldar 40K scale had 2 weapons in it, so you have a choice and an extra.

If they can do that, there is no reason they can't do something similar for titans.

Oh, well.  Maybe if E-A becomes commercially successful they will change the packaging and use that concept.
Author:  dafrca [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar list (10.3)
Quote (nealhunt @ 27 2003 June,08:11)
Quote (dafrca @ 26 2003 June,17:24)
You say this like it is not a good answer.

Heh. ?I'm beginning to think more and more that it is an incredibly lame answer. ?Last time I checked, every field artillery blister for the Eldar 40K scale had 2 weapons in it, so you have a choice and an extra.

If they can do that, there is no reason they can't do something similar for titans.

Oh, well. ?Maybe if E-A becomes commercially successful they will change the packaging and use that concept.

I tried to fight that fight for a while. Once I saw that either Jervis had no choice or he was dead set against the idea of weapon selection I gave up.

dafrca
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