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| Chaos black legion undivided initiative http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22759 |
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| Author: | Krigsminister [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
Hey Chaos Black Legion army initiative is 2+ If the army is undivided it doesnt hate or are hated by other. So will the +1 initiative modifier apply to undivided units if the army is undivided only? If afraid its not totally clear to me, but the text snippet from NetEA says: Quote: Formations dedicated to a specific Chaos god hate formations dedicated to any other Chaos god. Formations dedicated to Chaos Undivided do not suffer from hatred and are not hated by other Factions. A formation that has no units from a hated formation within 15cm of any of its units receives a +1 modifier to its initiative test. If even if one hated unit is within 15cm then this bonus is lost. This modifier only ever applies to units that are on the battlefield; aircraft and any other formations that are not in play never receive the modifier. /Christian |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
If its all undivided then 1+ init |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
an undivided unit never hates anyone, so they can never have a hated unit within 15cm so the bonus always applies. |
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| Author: | Krigsminister [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
Thanks, I thought it was so. Just thought i funny as i saw the undivided is the core, why the army standard initiative isnt 1+ then. And if 'hated' units are within 15 then its 2+. Its just a reversal though... |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
Design principle. People find it much easier to remember bonuses to their troops for some reason. |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
madd0ct0r wrote: Design principle. People find it much easier to remember bonuses to their troops for some reason. Jervis' design methodology is that if there are positive modifiers it is up to the player they apply to to remember them. Its your army so its your job. :-) Personally I've never liked the rather cranky way the CSM initiative works and the entire "hated" formations don't really appear to be a core part of the 40K rules or background any more. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
madd0ct0r wrote: Design principle. People find it much easier to remember bonuses to their troops for some reason. It's not really about memory. (In fact, I would argue it sometimes makes it harder to remember.) It's about not penalizing the opponent for not knowing the enemy's army list and special rules in detail. If all the special rules are bonuses, then it's up to the player who owns the army to remember and claim their special rule bonus. It doesn't burden the opponent. In theory. In reality, it's just as easy to end up with default behavior that harms the opponent because the owning player forgets (or "forgets") to apply the special rule appropriately. For example, you only have 2 formations to which Factions apply and you put them at opposite ends of the field so everyone has effectively 1+ Initiative. Late in the game, the formations end up near each other, but both players forget it's not 1+ because they've run the last ~25 activations without ever needing to check. So, basically, I don't think it works. I'd be fine with dumping it as a design concept and instead try to make everything easy to remember by keeping it as intuitive as possible. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
How many armies would really be effected by either; 1. Removing the rule altogether or 2 Simply not allowing Khorne/Slaanesh, Nurgle/Tzeentch groupings in th list ...? I daresay it would be minimal at best. If that is the case, why have the rule? |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
I don't think that anyone's army would be impacted by removing the Hatred rules and simplifying the initiative rules. I can recall only a single time in all the CSM games I played where the Hatred rules had any impact at all. |
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| Author: | Krigsminister [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
I like frogbears idea. Simple and easy. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
I summon Steve54! |
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| Author: | SpeakerToMachines [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
frogbear wrote: I summon Steve54! What's his Summon Cost? |
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| Author: | Parintachin [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chaos black legion undivided initiative |
A virgin should do .. |
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