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| Reinforced armour save on Jinking http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22398 |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
So I took on Alan's Mega-Gargant and mobs last night with my Eldar, including some Phoenix Bombers. I declared a ground attack with the Phoenix bombers and, when disengaging in the end move, the MWAA from his Mega-Gargant scores a hit. The PBombers save is 5+ RA, but because it is a MW AA shot and they are disengaging, they declare a Jink. So what is their save now; 4+ for jinking, or 5+ as jinking should only apply to the initial save? (Incidently, it was great fun but extreme as is often the case with my games. I decided to try to kill the Gargant accompanying his MG, but while my luck improved to that of ordinary mortals, Alan's became almost god-like; the Gargant only suffered 4 points of damage out of 50+ hits from 5 assaults and several shooting attacks!) |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
4+ Jink save then 5+ RA save I believe. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
"Aircraft that jink receive a 4+ saving throw instead of their normal armour save" "Units with reinforced armour...still take their saving throw when hit by macroweapons (see 2.2.7). In addition, they may re-roll a failed save against any non-macro-weapon hit, including those inflicted during an assault." Sounds to me like the save replaces the armour save so you'd get a reinforced 4+, as that's re-rolling the failed save. The only other similar situation is a Holofield, but that specifies that you don't get the 3+ re-roll. Without that caveat I think it does re-roll the 4+. Here's another interesting one; would you get a Jink save against MW AA? |
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| Author: | Reedar [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
Quote: Here's another interesting one; would you get a Jink save against MW AA? I don't see why not. The Jink represnts the aircraft dodging the shot completely, regardless of how powerful said shot is. Equally I don't think you should get an RA save on a jink as in theory the reinforced armour is only of use if you get hit, the whole point of the jink is you don't need to risk the armour. That said, I have a feeling the rules as written do allow to RA a jnk save... |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
I'd say that it is a 4+ save. Jink saves replace the normal armour save and as such the RA wouldn't apply. If you want RA then you need to take the normal save. |
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| Author: | adam77 [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
pixelgeek wrote: I'd say that it is a 4+ save. Jink saves replace the normal armour save and as such the RA wouldn't apply. If you want RA then you need to take the normal save. +1 |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
I always read Jink as similar to holofield. It replaces the "normal" save. The remaining process would revert back to the rules, i.e. if the normal save replacement fails, the reinforced armor save would kick in. Edit: Holofield even uses similar "normal save" language: Quote: Holofields provide Titans
with a special 3+ saving throw that can be taken instead of the Titan’s normal saving throw |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
Wouldn't it then be -for the Phoenix Bomber, a 4+ and a 5+ (jink and the RA roll)? Holofields you get the 3+ save and then the 5+ RA save for Phantoms and Warlock titans. |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
nealhunt wrote: Edit: Holofield even uses similar "normal save" language: Quote: Holofields provide Titans with a special 3+ saving throw that can be taken instead of the Titan’s normal saving throw It is similar but the Jink save states that it replaces the normal save and its this difference that I think is critical. The idea is that the Jink save is supposed to represent the aircraft making drastic maneuvers to avoid fire, hence losing its attack, and RA represents the strength of the armour. Jinking is the aircraft trying to avoid fire and RA is the armour being strong enough to absorb fire. |
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| Author: | alansa [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
Can't remember how we played it the other night - but ruminating over at a little I would say take it on the chin - 5+RA against a macro weapon gives a 5+ save OR Jink - Gives a 4+ save not at all affected in any way by the type of the weapon be it MW or even TK (I remember playing against a necron army a year or so ago which has TK AA! I said I'd jink but was told this wouldn't save me as it was a TK - which I think is totally wrong) Reasoning - the jink replaces your armour save. You don't get to make a jink save AND save against your armour. If you successfully jink the you survive, if you don't then you die regardless of the toughness of your armour and the deadliness of the weapon. This is different to the eldar holfofield as the rules for that explicitly say you may take your RA save in addition, (that is to say should you fail) to your field save (unless it is cancelled by lance or TK). No such wording is in place for the Jink rules - I'd say those who suggest you would get the RA save are inferring this from the holofield rules. Though perhaps it should be like that. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
Yes the Jink replaces the armour save. But Reinforced Armour isn't the armour save. It's a unit's special ability. So i would agree: 4+ Jink save then if failed the re-roll with the aircrafts actual armour save for Reinforced Armour. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
It should not matter how armour piercing a shot is. A jink is a move to evade, not relying on the strength of the armour. Hence a jink should save against a mw or tk. In regards to getting hit, the ra save should be off he base armour save, not the jink. So i agree with e&c and black legion. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reinforced armour save on Jinking |
Land Speeders have armour save 4+ due to their manouverability not because of their armour. |
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