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Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22395		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
Hi all

Assuming I have a formation of devastators with transport. A Thunderhawk flies in and loads the devastators, flying off in the end phase leaving the transport behind. Does the transport then just get removed from the table (and game) without giving the Devastators any blast markers for loss of the rhino transports?

I think this is how it would work.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
EA 3.1.3 Transport War Engines wrote:
Instead a war engine transport vehicle can carry units from another formation, as long as the entire formation can fit inside the war engine, and as long as the entire formation mounts up as part of the same move.


If I'm reading this right, then you couldn't transport the Devs in the Thunderhawk at all, since the entire formation couldn't fit.
Author:  enri [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
Paging Mephiston to this thread! He was giving me an example on Monday night of doing just this, i.e. embarking with infantry and leaving rhinos behind
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
EA 3.1.3 Transport War Engines wrote:
Instead a war engine transport vehicle can carry units from another formation, as long as the entire formation can fit inside the war engine, and as long as the entire formation mounts up as part of the same move.


If I'm reading this right, then you couldn't transport the Devs in the Thunderhawk at all, since the entire formation couldn't fit.

And the parallel text from 4.2.5:
Quote:
Transport aircraft are treated in the same
manner as war engine transport vehicles, and are only allowed
to transport units from another formation as long as the whole
formation can fit inside the transport aircraft (see 3.1.3).

I would say you cannot load the Devs unless they ditched the Rhinos prior to the Thawk landing/embarking.

There is definitely no partially-loaded status available. Both the aircraft and WE transport rules are explicit on that. You cannot have Devs loaded and Rhinos on the board.

However, I could see an argument that the embarkation onto the aircraft is the "move" that takes the Rhinos out of coherency. If that's the way you played it, the Rhinos would have to be removed and the BMs applied to the Devs immediately upon embarkation to avoid the split formation.
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
Quote:
1.7.4 Formations
Any units that are out of formation for any reason after a
formation has taken the movement part of its action are
destroyed. The controlling player may choose which units are
‘out of formation’ and destroyed. Note that each unit lost will
place one Blast marker on the main part of the formation.


I guess this really answers my question. I should really read the documents before coming here with my questions.
Author:  Dave [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
You can't pick up the infantry and leave the Rhinos behind, but the infantry can move onto a THawk that's landed and remove the Rhinos when the THawk disembarks. Weird, yes. You get 1 BM for each unit removed, as per 1.7.4. Expendable units removed don't generate the BM though.

... So what Neal said.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
hrm.... that's really annoying, in my only game with marines, I made sure to kill enough rhinos to stop them speeding all over the place yet not all of them so a T-hawk couldn't fly in and grab them.... I assumed that the 'spirit' of the rules would prevent this as you are expected to try to maintain coherency? perhaps I'm wrong about that :)
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifting off part of a formation using WE transport...?
1.7.4 caters for the situation where the formation becomes split up voluntarily or involuntarily, and there are a number of occasions where that could happen; for example after an engagement where casualties are taken on the centre of a formation and the remaining 'wings' cannot move back into coherency with each other. Equally a formation that suffers the loss of a transport may drop sufficient infantry units to remain mobile (they move as far as they can, fail to remain in coherency and are removed).

RAW, I am unsure that a formation is permitted to discard transports to be air-lifted off the table;
Quote:
3.1.3 Transport War Engines
Some war engines are capable of transporting other units. These war engines are an exception to the rule that transport vehicles may only carry units from their own formation. Instead a war engine transport vehicle can carry units from another formation, as long as the entire formation can fit inside the war engine, and as long as the entire formation mounts up as part of the same move. Note that a war engine may carry other units from its own formation using the normal rules (see 1.7.5).
(my emphasis)

However, personally I have no problem with doing this irrespective of how it is achieved. As Dave says, the transport loiters outside until the end of the move (just in case you change your mind), being removed at the end of the turn as part of the disengagement move.
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