Tactical Command
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Failed action tests and hold actions
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22235		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MrShinySpear [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Failed action tests and hold actions
After failing an action test, is the hold action mandatory?

Backstory
In our gaming circle we have been playing with rules such that the options after failing an action test are:
* Do nothing
* Take a Hold action and a blast marker

After taking another look at the rules it would appear that after failing an action test the formation should always take the Hold + BM.

Quote:
If the formation fails the test, it can still carry out a hold action (even if the player nominated something else), but the formation receives a Blast marker.

This (1.6.2 para2) appears to imply that taking a hold is optional, with a blast marker only inflicted if you do.

Quote:
Note that you must activate a formation if you can, you can’t choose to ‘pass’ unless you have no choice in the matter.

But this (1.6.1 para1) suggests that you would have to take to take a hold. And so our do nothing option and avoid a blast marker wouldn't be allowed.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
You must take a hold action if you fail an activation. In many cases it is in your best interest to regroup when you do, doing nothing but removing 2d6 take the highest blast markers, meaning if the blast marker you got from the activation is the only one, it is removed.
Author:  MikeT [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
As far as I know (and how we play it), failing an activation gets you a blast marker; there's no way to avoid this. After that, assuming that blast marker doesn't break the formation, you then marshal the formation (at this point, marshalling has no downside compared to no action).

I don't have the rulebook handy, but I think this ties into the fact that you can't choose to not try and activate a formation; always risking that blast marker for a failed activation.
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
Almost correct Mike :)
In general every formation must activate once per turn***
If the formation fails to activate (and assuming no SC reroll):-
  • add one BM to the formation
  • If the formation survives, it must take a "hold" action (move or shoot or remove BMs)
  • Pass the initiative to the opponent

Failing to activate specifically does *not* result in a "marshall", where the formation can move (or shoot) *and* remove BMs.

***except under the new FAQ for OW, where a formation already on OW may "pass" to remain on OW if there are no other unactivated formations remaining; passing marks the end of activations for that player.
Author:  MrShinySpear [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
Excellent. Thank you for your answers.

Receiving a BM and then regrouping to remove it (and possibly others) as part of the hold action is equivalent or better compared to the do nothing that we were doing. Well, as long as the fail doesn't break the formation anyway. Thanks again.
Author:  MikeT [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
Ngggggg, I'm still getting marshal and hold (and rally!) actions mixed up :(

Makes reading the special rules for armies like Necrons and Tyranids harder than it should be as well!
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
I had to look it up tp make sure I didn't make the same mistake. I know that I mean, it's just making sure everyone else does.

Kinda the story of my life. ;)
Author:  Larree [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
Does anyone else play it that since you take a hold action if you fail an activation test then that means a hold action can be taken without passing a test so you can elect to take a hold action without needing to test for activation? The benefit being that the BM is applied for failing the test so if you are happy to only take a hold action you can avoid the risk.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
I've never tried it nor heard of anyone house ruling that in. Formations on the cusp of breaking would like it a lot, that's for sure.
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
No you have to attempt to activate all formations. You can't select a hold. It only comes into play when you fail an activation.

The only way to "pass" is when you only have formations left that are currently on overwatch and chose to leave them on overwatch.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
I don't see a reason not to allow the selection of a Hold action, but as with any activation you'd have to test, and there are usually better options.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
Mephiston wrote:
No you have to attempt to activate all formations. You can't select a hold. It only comes into play when you fail an activation.

I think to be more technically accurate, Hold is an action. You could choose to try a Hold action but it would be the same as attempting any other choice. You'd have to roll anyway, and suffer the penalties for failure.

That's basically the same as choosing a Stand Down for aircraft, except that a failed activation on Stand Down is effectively erased by the action itself.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failed action tests and hold actions
The way I see it is if you want to select a Hold action (i.e move, shoot or regroup) you may as well attempt to roll for any other action that lets you perform one of those tasks (Advance/Double lets you do the first two and marshall lets you do the third...). It seems weird to try and Hold when the other options for actions work better anyway. :)
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