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| WE and Critical Hits clarification please http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21546 |
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| Author: | AgeingHippy [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Hi All The rules:- Quote: 3.2.3 Critical Hits The weapons used in Epic are so destructive that they have the ability to destroy or damage even the largest target if they hit the right place. To represent this, any hit on a war engine (no matter how it was inflicted) has a chance of causing critical damage. Roll a D6 for each hit scored on a war engine. On a roll of 1-5 the target suffers normal damage and its damage capacity is reduced by 1 point. On a roll of a 6 the hit has caused critical damage; the war engine still loses one point of damage capacity, but in addition suffers a critical hit. The effect of a critical hit is listed on the war engine’s datasheet and will vary from one type of war engine to another. For example, Imperial Titans are vulnerable to hits on their dangerously unstable plasma reactors, while Ork Gargants are renowned for catching fire, and so on. If a war engine suffers more than one critical hit then the effects of all of the hits are culmulative. I am unclear here as we have been playing critical hit roll seperate from the armour roll. The first underlined section states a critical hit can occur on any hit. The second underline implies there is no armour/cover save roll and that the WE will suffer damage regardless. 6 is a critical and 1-5 is normal damage of 1 DC point. Hence no armour roll. FWIW - I do not think this is correct... can anyone please clarify and also point to any relevant sections to substantiate your argument. Thanks |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
You only roll to see whether a critical is caused when the war engine takes damage. If it passes it's armour save you don't roll. |
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| Author: | AgeingHippy [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Thanks GlynG Can you point to the relevant section that states this since the quoted section clearly states roll a D6 when the WE is hit FWIW - I do think that it should be as you mention, but I read the rules differently. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
The use of the term "hit" there is rather ambiguous, yes. It is actually referring to a point of damage (a "successful" or "unsaved" hit) rather than all hits on the WE from enemy shooting. Read the paragraph before the one you quoted for the correct context. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
From the 2008 FAQ Quote: Q: In the rulebook in section 3.2.3 it
says to roll for a Critical Hit for every hit made on a War Engine. Do you actually roll of each hit or for each point of damage that the WE takes? A: Roll for a Critical Hit for each point of damage not for each hit. Only damage to a we can potentially cause a Critical Hit, not just hitting the War Engine with fire. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
The way I suggest is the correct that's played, I've been playing for years and have played a few epic tournaments. The meaning of that section could certainly have been communicated more clearly though, as I can certainly see why you're interpreting it the way you are. Where it says hits I guess it's short-hand for 'hit-points of damage' rather than a shooting/combat attacks hitting the WE. The bit where it says "the war engine still loses one point of damage capacity, but in addition suffers a critical hit." shows criticals happens after damage has been inflicted rather than saved - the sub-section 3.2.2 above states that WEs only lose a point of damage capacity if they fail their save: "Each hit that is not saved will reduce the war engine’s damage capacity by 1 point." |
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| Author: | AgeingHippy [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Thanks guys. That makes it clear and easy to substantiate. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Just to be clear, you roll for a critical for each point of damage inflicted on the WE however it is caused. The damage is not just restricted to shooting hits, but may be caused by wading through difficult terrain, or even the results of another critical hit result. Indeed it is theoretically possible for a single point of damage on a Warlord to go critical and cause a cascade of further criticals resulting in the destruction of the Warlord - though it is highly unlikely 
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| Author: | AgeingHippy [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Ginger wrote: J... Indeed it is theoretically possible for a single point of damage on a Warlord to go critical and cause a cascade of further criticals resulting in the destruction of the Warlord ... Hi Ginger Thanks for this, but can you substantiate this? This certainly would be a point of contention unless otherwise stated in the rulebook. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
I refer you back to the 2008 FAQ entry I quoted above. |
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| Author: | AgeingHippy [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Ginger wrote: Just to be clear, you roll for a critical for each point of damage inflicted on the WE however it is caused. The damage is not just restricted to shooting hits, but may be caused by wading through difficult terrain, or even the results of another critical hit result. Indeed it is theoretically possible for a single point of damage on a Warlord to go critical and cause a cascade of further criticals resulting in the destruction of the Warlord - though it is highly unlikely Actually, on reflection, I do not agree with a critical hit generating another critical hit. We accept that any form of damage generates a critical hit. Yes. BUT - A hit can generate damage which can be critical! So the hit causing damage either causes critical damage or normal damage. I am not very clear, but I think critical damage is just the extent of the damage a hit generates. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Every time your WE takes a point of damage, not matter what the source, there is a 1 in 6 chance that it results in a critical hit. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
It depends what the critical damage for that particular war engine results in. With a Warlord Titan for example it's reactor is damaged and in the end phase you roll an a chart; on a result of a 1 it dies instantly or on a 2-3 it takes an additional point of damage. Say a 3 is rolled on the chart, then the Warlord takes an extra point of damage from the critical and this is in addition to the point of damage that caused the critical. You roll to see whether any point of damage a war engine takes causes a critical, so the extra damage point from the critical could cause a further critical were another 6 rolled. Even without rolling an instant-kill 1 on the critical hit table it is possible for a Warlord from 7 hit points to dead in an end phase by a chain of criticals causing further criticals, however the odds of this are astronomically small. |
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| Author: | Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
Think of it as a chain of explosions, each causing the next until the WE is just blown apart. There are many instances in naval history where multiple secondary explosions/fires, and not the damage from a hit, are the cause of a catastrophic failure. |
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| Author: | Lord Aaron [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WE and Critical Hits clarification please |
critical hits causing criticals? seriously?  honestly I would forcibly "forget" that rule if it ever came up. chain reactions , sure, but honestly if that's going to happen it would be in the critical hit chart, like if BFG. The critical hit part IS the secondary/extra damage/critical fails/metal fatigue.
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