Tactical Command
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IG manticores
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21453		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  rasputindarksyde [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  IG manticores
So I played a game yesterday against IG. He had a basilisk formation with 3 manticoress in it. My question is with the disrupt. Does it count for the whole units hits or just the hits from the disrput models. He had 10 hits on me so he said I get 10 BM's before any saves were done along with the 1 for being shot at and the 2 extra for having so many BP's, so started with 13 BM's. I know disrupt works that way but it seems alittle to powerful for all of his attacks to get disrupt when only 3 models actually have it. I was broken before I even had to make saves. Just seems a bit wierd to me.

What is the right way to work this out?
Author:  zombocom [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
If only some unit contributing to the BP have disrupt then the bonus for disrupt is lost. Only if all BP firing units have disrupt is it gained.
Author:  Flogus [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
When using barrage weapons, special effects (such Disrupt, Ignore Cover, MW, ...) apply to the barrage only if ALL the weapons participating to the barrage have the same special effects.

So 6 Basilisks + 3 Manticores firing all together make a 12 BP barrage, with no special effects. If you want Disrupt, Basilisks must not fire.
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
The others are correct. However Basilisks have an optional direct fire mode where they just have an AT/AP attack instead. If they do that and it's only the Manticores making the barrage then it would have disrupt.
Author:  rasputindarksyde [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
Ok, sounds good. Another question if you will. If you fire the manticores do they still fall under slow rate of fire? Even if you don't use the disrupt.

And where can we find they rules for your answer. What Pg#.
Author:  captPiett [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
I don't know the page number for the special abilities/BP discussion, but yes, the manticores must still use the slow firing rule.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
rasputindarksyde wrote:
Ok, sounds good. Another question if you will. If you fire the manticores do they still fall under slow rate of fire? Even if you don't use the disrupt.

And where can we find they rules for your answer. What Pg#.

Slow fire would apply regardless. Special abilities/weapons are generally not linked to each other.

The barrage special ability is discussed in the intro to section 2.0, and it's in the official FAQs.
Rulebook, 2.0, third paragraph, emphasis added:
Quote:
Sometimes situations will occur where some units have a
special ability and others do not, raising the question of
whether the ability may be used. For example, some units in a
formation may be able to fire a barrage that ignores cover or
has the macro-weapon effect, while other weapons taking part
in the barrage do not. If such a situation occurs in a battle then
you may only use the ability if all of the units taking part can
use it – so the barrage would only ignore cover or count as a
macro-weapon if all of the units participating in the barrage
had these abilities.

FAQ:
Quote:
2.2.2 Disrupt
Q: If an Imperial Guard Artillery Co.
contains Basilisks and Manticores
(with the Disrupt ability) does a
barrage fired from this formation use
the Disrupt rules since not all of the
units in it have the Disrupt ability?
A: Special Weapon abilities are only used if
all the units firing have them. So if you
wanted to use the Disrupt ability in this
case you could only fire with the
Manticores. A barrage that used both types
of units would not have the Disrupt ability.

As someone else noted, though, Basilisks could use their direct-fire mode and still be able to fire without contributing to the barrage.

And one other thing... you may know this, but the way you phrased the original question makes me want to make sure it's clear.

There is not an option to split barrage fire. If you fire a BP weapon, ALL weapons contribute to a single barrage. There is no splitting. You can't do something like "3 Manticores fire a Disrupt barrage and the 6 Basilisks fire a normal barrage."
Author:  rasputindarksyde [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IG manticores
Ok thanks for clearing everything up. That helps big time. Yes I knew that you couldn't split fire. We just couldn't figure out what was the deal with the maticores and disrupt.

Thanks again everyone.
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