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| Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19613 |
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| Author: | Tim_nz [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
OK so the qituation ins im firing 2 warhounds full payload into 1 squiggoth with some orcs in it and theres 2 other orc infanty stands int he formation from another squiggoth that was destroyed in a prior turn, the 2 orcs are closest to the warhounds then its the squiggoth. Dice roll 3 regular hits and 3 macro hits. So 2 orcs take a hit each and the squiggoth takes a hit and we resolve saves before macro is assigned. orcs die, squiggoth fails save and dies, now my question is this. with 3 macro hits remaining which comes first ? marco assigned hits or the orcs saves from jumping from tehre poor departed transport? and if is the orc first do the macro hits then become assigned to the remaining unit ? Cheers Tim NZ |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
Personally I would say the MW shots are wasted as there were no viable targets to select at the time of assigning. The fact that they jump out of the transport (did they have to make their save?), should not then have them take on further hits. Well that's the way I sees it 
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| Author: | Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
The effects of all MW shots are resolved [squiggoth destroyed] then the effects of the Squiggoth's death are resolved [transported models make saves]. Thus the Orks inside are saved from 'double jeopardy'. An aside - I have always played that models transported in a vehicle hit by a MW shot get no save unless they are RA. Is this wrong? |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
Spectrar Ghost wrote: An aside - I have always played that models transported in a vehicle hit by a MW shot get no save unless they are RA. Is this wrong? No, you are correct. We just had this the other day as well. Transported models make saves as if they were hit by the weapon that destroyed the transport it seems. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
Very good question Tim. So this is a question on timing. Normally, hits are allocated in two rounds, first normal hits allocated and resolved, then MW hits are allocated to units that have survived. If this timing is followed to the letter, the Squiggoth is destroyed by the 'normal' hit, and so any transported units test immediately (either their armour or 6+ whichever the greater). IMHO only at this point will the MW hits be allocated, potentially being allocated to one or more of those surviving transportees. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
Tis an interesting one - because of course with normal fire the infantry can save, if its MW fire the infantry will be auto killed as well!! |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
The point about having two rounds of hit allocation is precisely that there is a form of 'double-jeopardy'. Units at the front could survive the normal hit, only to get a MW hit allocated and die. Here, lets assume the Squiggoth contained 4x Orcs from the original formation with the two survivors from the other formation. As described, the three normal hits each killed an Ork and the Squiggoth. The contents all test and two survive - only to die to the MW hits. As an alternative, lets just suppose that all survived the normal hits. Then the three MW hits are allocated - and as TRC says, the two orks and the Squiggoth die; then the contents test as though they have been hit by the MW, and of course they all die as well. So either way the formation and the contents are pretty much screwed 
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| Author: | frogbear [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
I still do not believe the transported troops take the hits from the opposing unit (the left over MW). I believe that they are wasted. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
See I take the other view. If troops in transports are not viable targets for hit allocation, then this should not change in the same shooting phase that the transport is destroyed |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
You are however getting off lightly because if the MW fire hit the transport it would kill those inside unless they have RA. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
I believe Ginger is correct. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
Ginger is correct. Allocate and resolve all normal hits. Allocate and resolve all MW hits. If the "eligible to be allocated hits" status of the models changes between those two round of allocation, then it changes. MW treated as a separate allocation, not a special subset of the first allocation. So... squiggoth dies from the normal hit. Transported units make saves from their destroyed transport. Start MW allocation, front to back as normal, possibly hitting transported units that survived the Squiggoth's destruction. There is no protection from "double jeopardy." In fact, part of the reason for the second-round-MW idea is that it gives the MW a better chance to hit high-armor targets because those are the targets most likely to survive the normal fire. In other words, the mechanic is designed to function with intentional double jeopardy. |
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| Author: | Tim_nz [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules Query. (Destroyed transports + additional shots) |
we played it on the day as ginger and neal have also concluded, so thank you for all your input, we just werent sure as to if what we did was %100 correct. Heres the Toruny report from which the incident happened if you want to see viewtopic.php?f=84&t=19624 Cheers Tim NZ |
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