Guys, thanks for the quick reply and clearing this up for me.
cheers
sanjuro
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| assault question http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18936 |
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| Author: | sanjuro [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | assault question |
Hi, me and my mates just recently switched to E:A (3 games so far). Most of the rules are pretty clear, I really like how the system is "tight" and playable, making for some really enjoyable games. However, one point I have been brooding on since our last game. consider a Space Marine Assault Detachment engaging a 'uge Ork Mob which is stretched far over the table. I engage 2 orcs in BTB, the other 2 assault marines give their FF value (well, just for the sake of the argument). There are only 5 orks within 15 cm of the Assault detachment. What happens? A) Can I assign hits only to the guys within 15 cm? And can only the five Orks within the 15 cm fight back? B) Can I assign hits to the whole mob as long as there had been Orks within 15 cm when I engaged, and so all Orks from the mob are able to fire back? Furthermore, formation giving supporting fire, do they have to be within 15 cm of the engaging units OR 15 cm within the engaged enemy formation? cheers sanjuro |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
The answer is "A", to both questions. :-) Remember that the Ork formation that gets engaged is allowed a counter-charge towards the Marines, normally of 5cm per unit. |
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Evil and Chaos wrote: The answer is "A", to both questions. :-) Remember that the Ork formation that gets engaged is allowed a counter-charge towards the Marines, normally of 5cm per unit. I think he wants to know if he can make what we call a Clipping Attack or will the whole Ork mob get to fight. I'll try to explain...but there MANY more qualified people better to answer...hopefully some will be by soon.... So say Ork mob has 10 units spread out in a straight line. Your Assault Marines Engage one of the ends of said line. 2 Assault M get into BtB with 2 Orks each (4 total vs 2 Assault) and the other 2 Assault M use FF. After Orks 5cm Counter charge say 3 More Orks stands can now reach FF to the Assault M. The rest of the Orks CANNOT use FF or CC then but your (I believe) can't carry down the line either? But after assault resolution hack down kills can carry down the line to the rest of the mob. Support Fire needs to be within 15cm of who every is being engaged, IE any of the Ork mob even the other end of the line. Hope that helps....Or maybe not...=) |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
sanjuro wrote: Hi, Hello. Welcome aboard. Quote: What happens? A) Can I assign hits only to the guys within 15 cm? And can only the five Orks within the 15 cm fight back? B) Can I assign hits to the whole mob as long as there had been Orks within 15 cm when I engaged, and so all Orks from the mob are able to fire back? A. Only units in range/LoS get to shoot at each other during the assault. Note, the "hackdown" hits from winning an assault (1.12.7) can be assigned regardless of range. Quote: Furthermore, formation giving supporting fire, do they have to be within 15 cm of the engaging units OR 15 cm within the engaged enemy formation? They have to be in 15cm of the enemy, but there is another requirement as well. The supporting units have to be within 15cm of the enemy formation AND the supporting units can only hit units that are within 15cm of the assaulting formation. In other words, if the assaulting formation cannot hit the enemy unit, neither can the supporting fire. Targets have to be in range/LoS of both the assault and the support to be allocated hits from support fire. |
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| Author: | sanjuro [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Guys, thanks for the quick reply and clearing this up for me. cheers sanjuro |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
IF it helps, try to think of the assault as taking place in a 15-30cm area that contains troops from both sides. Other parts of the formations that are outside this area are too far away to contribute, especially the 'Uge' Ork mob which might stretch over a mile in real terms |
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| Author: | sanjuro [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
That makes sense, Ginger, thanks for the explanation. Makes me wonder though why anybody would take a 'uge Mob. Two small mobs within 15cm of each other seem to have far more advantages: same engagement quality while defending, since not all unit can possibly participate, When engeging, they can help each other out with supporting, should the opponent break the first, the second gets at him, 2 activations instead of one, not to forget crossfire. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Orks major on size in a number of ways. In assaults, there are a number of factors that contribute to the assault resolution including the relative size of the two sides. If you can double-outnumber your opponent you are already +2 on the resolution. Also, larger Ork mobs get more Gretchin or 'grots', who should be preserved for assaults where they are pushed to the front. Any killed Grots do not contribute to the assault resolution - giving another advantage to the larger Ork mob. Finally, larger mobs are more likely to rally from being broken. BUT You have to balance the number of activations against the size of each formation. Too few activations and the Orks get outmanoeuvered and destroyed in detail. Too many small formations and the army becomes brittle because the smaller formations rarely rally from being broken. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Uge mobs can take Uge amounts of fire and still be a real threat. Between the sheer number and 6 Nobz, it's virtually impossible to break them except in assaults. In fact, it's pretty hard to even keep BMs on them from turn to turn. I wouldn't take a lot of them, but they have their place. |
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| Author: | Dughan [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
that is untill a 'uge mob is clipped by two units of teleporting terminators on its flank. and is only able to bring 8 attacks in on the termanitors and fire fight from orks is not a promising hit. never the less,, the 8 terminators + supreme commander and the other unit with a chaplain... i lost the combat because i couldnt scrub off the terminators.. thus insuring that i had 24 blast markers to deal with and could only eat 7 of them from my nobs. oh well, back to big mobs. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Ork Gunsmob Garisons on overwatch (With an oddboy or two) make Terminators *really* hesitant to undertake teleport attacks... |
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| Author: | Dughan [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
well i was experminting with the feral orks at the time. but in the end, i won.. it was just a very hard won victory... |
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| Author: | sanjuro [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
Dughan, the same happened in my last game, which brought up the original question. I teleported Terminators in, then assaulted with a thunderhawk with devs and assaults. That broke the 'uge Mob, even though it had no BMs (well there was a little bit of luck with the dice involved, too  ). OTOH, the 'uge Mob was worth around 1000 points, my assaulting force was worth more or less the same. Kept me thinking, though. With two Mobs side by side, I could not (or would not) have done it.
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| Author: | Dughan [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: assault question |
i completly understand that one. heck, i'm still an EA newb with only about 10 games underneath my belt with different armies (orks, eldar, guard ,space marines and squats/demiurg). Of those armies i have played orks the most but like all of them. But luckily i have had some good games to teach me that a 1000 point mob eats up alot of activations and would be better to have a 700 point mob and a smaller one next to it. My last game was against eldar again. A buddy of mine who has now had 3 or 4 games underneath him likes the eldar but plays them like a hammer. My theory is that the eldar are not a hammer but a ceramic scalpel. They slice into you but if you don't play them correctly and time your attacks accordingly, they shatter apart. This last game his timing was off and we had a very BLOODY first turn. Though imagine, ork fighta bomba's destroying wave serpents on their start line. Then sent in a landa from my start line to his,, dropped 10 storm boyz and broke another unit of 5 wave serpents carrying all banshee's. Actually almost all of his aspects were banshee's. he just didn't pass his command rolls or didnt get to push them forward due to the rapid advance of the Kult of speed. My army was based on an Evil Suns army with a battle fort big mob (4 of them plus all the troops), three kults of speed, a blits mob with three odd boyz, a six strong stompa mob with Mekboy gargant to hold the center, 2 squadrons of FB's, and a landa for that blits to the finish line. His army was fast, but i beat him to the punch on the first turn. Even managed to kill one revanant with odd boy artillary fire from three BP cannons. by the end of the second turn he only had some super heavies to fight with that were not broken to pieces. |
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