Tactical Command :: View topic - BTS

4.3 Spacecraft

Q: Do Spacecraft count for the Break Their Spirit goal if they are the most expensive formation in an army?
A: No. Spacecraft (or any off-board units or formations) do not count towards goals.

ah, that's good to know. I can now be an even cheekier git and keep my Ulthwe pimped Guardian fm BTS off-board forever. Mwah ha ha.

Oh wait, that means I can't use it. Damn.

Also, there's the issue that a more expensive formation with the ability to go off-board, also counts if killed. AX-10's, Harbinger Bomber, and Necron Destroyer Formations are examples I've seen in games.

An AX-10 or Harbinger formation off-board is not considered a potential BTS goal and is not considered to be destroyed.

Quote:

An AX-10 or Harbinger formation off-board is not considered a potential BTS goal and is not considered to be destroyed.

If it is destroyed by AA fire whilst on the board then BTS has been claimed, no?

Author:	mattthemuppet [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:	BTS - definition
hi again, another query brought up by playing against different people 1000's of miles apart. What is the correct definition of the Break Their Spirit objective in tournament style games? (a related Q would be, Is there a definition for BTS?) Some people I play treat the BTS as the most expensive non-aircraft formation (whether on board at start of game or not), others treat it as the most expensive formation, aircraft or not. This brings up other issues - if an aircraft is the BTS, what happens at the end of turn 3 if it disengages and flies off the board? Usually having the BTS off-board would count as giving the opponent that objective (as I foolishly did with Necrons once), but in this case it was explained that, if the aircraft BTS was destroyed before the end of turn 3, it counts as BTS, if not then the next most expensive formation becomes the BTS. Seems a bit clunky to me, but different styles of play can be somewhat ingrained in different regions, so it'd be nice to clear up. Even though it's a slightly picky question, it does have some affect on army list composition which makes it a tricky thing to deal with in the pre-game warmup.

Author:	nealhunt [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Off-board formations don't count for BTS determination unless specifically noted otherwise (which, right now, is only applicable to phased out Necrons). Aircraft and spacecraft do not count. FAQ: Quote: 4.3 Spacecraft Q: Do Spacecraft count for the Break Their Spirit goal if they are the most expensive formation in an army? A: No. Spacecraft (or any off-board units or formations) do not count towards goals.

Author:	mattthemuppet [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
ah, that's good to know. I can now be an even cheekier git and keep my Ulthwe pimped Guardian fm BTS off-board forever. Mwah ha ha. Oh wait, that means I can't use it. Damn.

Author:	nealhunt [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
The off-board formation cannot be the BTS. That does not mean that no BTS exists, only that the off-board formation is not eligible. The most expensive eligible formation, i.e. the most expensive one on the board, would then be the BTS. Of course, it is allowed to keep a BTS formation off board until turn 3, so the enemy only has 1-2 turns to try to destroy it. As you note, the drawback is the lack of use for 2+ turns.

Author:	Morgan Vening [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Also, there's the issue that a more expensive formation with the ability to go off-board, also counts if killed. AX-10's, Harbinger Bomber, and Necron Destroyer Formations are examples I've seen in games. Example, a Tau army is built with 2 AX-10 Squads and a 325pt Fire Warrior Squad, and all the other squads sub 325 points. If your opponent kills either AX-10 squad, OR the Fire Warrior Squad, they get to claim BTS. Morgan Vening

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

BTS - definition http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18489	Page 1 of 1

Author:	zombocom [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
mattthemuppet wrote: ah, that's good to know. I can now be an even cheekier git and keep my Ulthwe pimped Guardian fm BTS off-board forever. Mwah ha ha. Oh wait, that means I can't use it. Damn. Nope, if they stay offboard forever they don't count towards the goal, so the most expensive onboard formation would be your BTS.

Author:	nealhunt [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Morgan Vening wrote: Also, there's the issue that a more expensive formation with the ability to go off-board, also counts if killed. AX-10's, Harbinger Bomber, and Necron Destroyer Formations are examples I've seen in games. This isn't correct, Morgan. An offboard formation only counts as destroyed for the purposes of BTS if the army list specifically states that it does. As of right now, only Necrons have that weakness. An AX-10 or Harbinger formation off-board is not considered a potential BTS goal and is not considered to be destroyed.

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Quote: An AX-10 or Harbinger formation off-board is not considered a potential BTS goal and is not considered to be destroyed. If it is destroyed by AA fire whilst on the board then BTS has been claimed, no?

Author:	Morgan Vening [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Evil and Chaos wrote: Quote: An AX-10 or Harbinger formation off-board is not considered a potential BTS goal and is not considered to be destroyed. If it is destroyed by AA fire whilst on the board then BTS has been claimed, no? Yeah, that's what I meant. The AX-10's don't count if they aren't destroyed, the Fire Warriors do. But the AX-10's DO count if they are destroyed. This was discussed several months ago, and that seemed to be how it was supposed to be interpreted. Morgan Vening

Author:	zombocom [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Yep, the FAQ just says "Spacecraft (or any off-board units or formations) do not count towards goals." While it's onboard an aircraft is not an off-board formation.

Author:	nealhunt [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Ah. Okay. I misunderstood your post. I agree - destroyed while on board counts for BTS.

Author:	mattthemuppet [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
wow, you can see why I was confused. So, in summary: Spacecraft can never be the BTS Aircraft can be, but only while they're on board. Other off-board fms can be, but only once they've come on board. If none of the above are on board, the next most expensive formation, which is on board, is the BTS, unless it was the most expensive formation to begin with in which case all the above is moot.

Author:	zombocom [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
If there is an enemy formation still allive and on the board that is more expensive than the most expensive dead enemy formation when you check goals, then you have not achieved the BTS goal. That covers all the offboard, aircraft etc situations.

Author:	Fortis [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Does this mean that in, say, the apocrypha mud marine list you could have a whole bunch of small, cheap formations, one slightly less cheap which acts as the BTS, then if that gets destroyed you could fly in a thunderhawk to land on the table somewhere out of the way at the end of turn 3 to prevent BTS from being taken? I can't think of a less rediculous example of this, but I'm sure there is one.

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Author:	zombocom [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: BTS - definition
Fortis: As long as all the onboard formations cost less than the thunderhawk, yes.