How are the epic rules at playing out battles in a city? Is the tournament scenario fit for such or are the better alternatives? I'm curious as I have a load of city terrain; roads, buildings, etc and I'm considering getting more, maybe enough to cover 50-100% of the table with dense terrain and a network of roads with maybe a river and small park, but no big open areas.

In W40k you have a City Fight expansion with lots of extra characterful rules and suggestions. I remember an old journal article with a bunch of stuff for SM/TL city fights too, though I don't think we ever tried it out. Not sure I've seen anything for EpicA though, has there been anything?

e.g. Has anyone made any (house/scenario) rules for destroying buildings with large barrages or similarly powerful weapons?

Any guidelines/rules for the numbers of infantry that can occupy high towerblocks? - often troops are just placed on top of a building, but with the Censorium say you have a 4 storey tall building with no space on top to do that. For buildings that tall or taller it only seems reasonable to allow more infantry to occupy them vertically than could fit onto the roof, even if you can put infantry on there. I'm thinking you'll have to leave troops off board and measure ranges from the centre point maybe?

Some roads could be blocked off by tank traps or road blocks, channelling movement down particular ways, especially for (non-skimming) tanks.

And that's probably just scratching the surface of the potential ideas. Maybe I should have a read through W40k City Fight and those old journals (if I can find them).

This would be an excellent idea for a fanbased expansion book, similar to Raiders or Siege, IMHO.

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"We are the sword of fire with which the Traitors shall be cut down."

I remember way back in the 1st edition of epic you could destroy buildings. With anything - even bolter fire!

In every game I played, nobody put their troops in buildings, for fear of the buildings being levelled and killing everyone in it. Indeed, the best tactic was to destroy nearby buildings first, reducing them to rubble and then move your own troops inside.

All very silly.


In the second edition tried to remedy this by restricting building destruction to heavy weapons - so autocannon and missile launchers! It didn't work.

Buildings became indestructable in the 3rd ed. I wouldn't recommend destructible buildings - except perhaps by nothing less than orbital barrages?

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In Imperial Armour Apocalypse there are rulesd for THIS:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/fort.htm

Wallsections have 4 DC, Towers 6DC, the Gate 4DC and the Gatetowers 8DC.
Reduced to 0DC the section crumbles and is turned to Rubble. Each model (= unit in Epic) takes a hit but armour saves are allowed.
I would give each section RA4+ and Thick Rear Armour.

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

That does sound rather silly, a bolter taking down a city block!?!

I was thinking it would be flavourful and interesting, but best to kept it to a minimum. Off the top of my head maybe 9BP or more needed or an orbital barrage? Possibly the odd titan / ordinatus weapon too where appropriate.

The building would get a save and / or damage capacity too, so it still wouldn't automatically or easily reduce it to rubble.

Citadel journal 2 had rules for city fights with rules based on the assault rules.

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More of a current misconception which seems to be that every army in Rogue Trader consisted of 2 squats with toughness 15 force fields and homing autodestructive 50" blast vortex missiles on jetboards...

My (rarely) updated hobby blog

I haven't posted something like this in a while but, "EPIC: Total War" will have some "advanced terrain" and cityfight rules, including such things as fighitng *inside* a Hive City!

This will included such this as "deformable" terrain/buildings, heavy duty fortifications, and other things.

(Please bear with me if the attachments in the thread linked above don't work yet, gotta repost it all after the TacComm crash.)

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Here's playtest rules for "Large Fortifications"; they've been quite fun to use in our games and certainly can be tough to crack!

Haven't worked out point values for them yet, but they can be used as "neutral" terrain in current games.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

The "Cleanse" mission also makes a nice alternative to the Tournament Scenario if playing on a "cityfight"-type of table.

Can't edit my pre-Crash posts, so I'll just stick this here for now:

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Well, the buildings did have DCs and armour saves. So you'd need a lot of bolter fire to do it. But doable it was!

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I have managed to aquire a good 6"x4" worth of city fighting terrain and often play "Stalingrad" esq games. I can in all honesty say that more terrain makes for some superb games of epic and requires no extra rules.

Sounds great Chroma!

Rules for buildings generally will be the much more used ones, but city walls rules are cool too.

Hmmm... makes me wonder if one day I could fight the scenarios from the Vraks books, only in epic scale.

I'd like to try playing round with a few extra rules too, but that's good to hear.

Do you have any photos of the city anywhere by any chance so I can have a look and see how dense the terrain is?

Especially how you handle the houses themselves. So to speak.
Is each a building, or do you play it as area terrain?

And pictures!  

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so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Just treat each as a seperate building or ruins, depending on the individual terrain piece.  As long as you're sensible about things and keep a good dialogue with your opponent there's never any problems.