Tactical Command
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Clarification Air landed assault
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16417		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Erik M [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Ok, let me get this rulescullduggery clear...

I get my guns, guns and more revolvers to get in with my lightningsounding predatory bird. And then get out with it too.

Ie...
1) the Thunderhawk does a ground assault and the assault platoon in it jumps out and help it.
2) the assault platoon (after winning) consolidates back into contact with the T-hawk.
3) the T-hawk scoops them up and leave during the end phase.

Right, wrong, amendments...?
Author:  Tim_the_titan [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
1)  RIGHT

2)  RIGHT

3)  WRONG :(

if the platoon consolidates into the T hawk it cant leave that turn.

option 1 : platoon consolidates elsewhere and t hawk buggers off in the end phase.

option 2 : as above   but a 2nd t hawk yet to activate fly in picks up your boys and takes them off to happy land with some pink candles and fluffy bunnies, ready wreck havoc the following turn.
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Wrong, On landing the T'Hawk can either disembark or embark troops within 5cms. It can do neither on its disengage move.

And if the troops in combat consolidate ONTO the T'Hawk it cannot disengage that turn.
Author:  mspaetauf [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
nah!

If you use your consolidation move to get back on board the thunderhawk, you cannot take off in the same turn.
You could use a second THawk to get your troops, though.

cheers,

edit: hah, too slow I was  :p
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
As the others have said, you may not both Consolidate onto an air transport and disengage. This is because Consolidation is deemed to take place during the end phase and replaces Disengagement. However, you may use other types of move to get into the transport; so a broken formation may 'Withdraw' onto the transport, and formations may make an 'Advance', 'Double' or 'March' ending in the transport.

To perform a "repeating" assault you must either
a) Use two THawks, one to assault and the other to pick up a single formation
b) Use two formations, one to assault in the THawk, the other to move into the THawk afterwards.

Either way, this results in a loaded THawk sitting on the ground close to some very upset opponents for the rest of the turn, so take care over the timing and location of the manoever.

Note pink candles and fluffy bunnies are a bit old-fashioned; Rufty-tufty marines have 'the ride of the Valkyries' blaring out of loud speakers bolted onto the THawk
(check out Apocalypse Now and Kelly's Heroes for similar examples)
Author:  Erik M [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Right!

1) Can't I "scoop up" two formations?
2) Could I possibly use two double sets?
Ass1 comes in on TH1 and leaves in TH2 (that brought Ass2 in, which in turn leaves in TH1). ~ Ah, no. Can't leave if consolidated into.
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Quote: (Erik M @ 12 Aug. 2009, 11:42 )

Right!

1) Can't I "scoop up" two formations?
2) Could I possibly use two double sets?
Ass1 comes in on TH1 and leaves in TH2 (that brought Ass2 in, which in turn leaves in TH1).

I'm not sure if Ass 2 could use there 10cm disembark move to move onto TH1. Interesting idea but I'd expect you would do better to use both Ass 1 and 2 in TH1 and pick both up with TH2 later.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Quote: (Erik M @ 12 Aug. 2009, 11:42 )

1) Can't I "scoop up" two formations?

As long as the units will all fit inside the transport and are within range to embark when the transport lands, you can put any number of formations into the transport.  If you had 8 units of assault marines from 8 different formations, you could load all of them on a Thawk.

2) Could I possibly use two double sets?
Ass1 comes in on TH1 and leaves in TH2 (that brought Ass2 in, which in turn leaves in TH1). ~ Ah, no. Can't leave if consolidated into.

Right.  Also, you can't both embark and disembark from an aircraft during its action, so you can't land, disembark/assault, and embark a waiting formation all in the same action.
Author:  Erik M [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Thanks all.
Now I really know why I want them four Thunderhawks and plethora of Dreadnoughts too!
To bad the assault detachment can't have Dreadnoughts.

But there's then that last question. Un-dedicated transports (like a Land Raider detachment) they can't pick people up, right? Only Warmachines can?
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Yep, carrying units from formations other than the one you are part of is a WE transport special rule.
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
As Meph says if you check 1.7.5 (transport vehicles) it says that they may only carry units from their own formation, so a Land Raider formation may not pick up units from other formations. Only WE transport can pick up units from another formation (under 3.1.3).

When a WE transport activates, the troops it carries disembark as part of the transport's movement and activation - so they may only shoot or assault. As Neal says, theoretically the troops arriving in one transport could disembark directly into the other transport, but once inside, they would not be able to shoot or assault.

It sounds like you are trying to sort out sufficient air transport for an air-borne Marine army. In 3000 points, this is typically 3x THawks, or possibly 2x Landing Craft with some terminators teleporting in, and/or others planetfalling via drop pods from a spaceship. Depending on play style and strategy, the THawks may bombard the enemy, perform assaults and switch some formations from one point to another.
Author:  Erik M [ Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Something like that Ginger.
Like a Dev Det with close Dread on one in (no activation needed as it's part of the T-hawk's such) and then a second mopping up the rest and carrying the Dev's out.

Ah, that begs the answer too, could I leave parts of the formation behind?

Else one TH and two Dev making a clipping assault... Could be... devastating.
Esp if the second TH gets a them mopping up shots in too.
Author:  Erik M [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
So, I managed to get this tested Sunday. Running a demo (and subverting to new acolytes...).

Ground Assault with Thunderhawk and two loaded Assault.
Damn One: Assault Marines do not have Infiltrate!
But more important here...
Damn Two: I forgot to Barge In with the Thunderhawk. As a WE I could've placed it just about anyhowplace and the marines could've really used their 15cm assault range.
In this case I let the screen of Sentinels work to protect the Artillery Company. Dang!

You live and learn.
But now I got three drop pods coming my way and a cruiser too. With planet fall attack and thunderhawk to mop and scope up it'll perhaps be Space Marines, the Emperors Finest.

I can use the WE barging to get the ones to pick up to get in contact too, right?

WE Barging and ground assault takes some consideration it seem?
Author:  mspaetauf [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
Hi!

But there's then that last question. Un-dedicated transports (like a Land Raider detachment) they can't pick people up, right? Only Warmachines can?

that's one of the things that pisses me off about the marines list. No Land Raiders for the tactical marines. :(


about the assault:
I don't really get how the sentinels can screen the THawk. Was it the only possible direction for the approach? Because you can basically come from any side.
And if they are close together (5cm), I'd declare an intermingled assault. Against artillery it shouldn't be a problem at all. Especially with assault marines; with the 15cm disembark move you should get all 8 marines into base-to-base contact.

cheers,
Author:  Erik M [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification Air landed assault
It depends on how many BM I want to run around with on the TH. As it was artillery it was at the edge and in the corner. Not really the perfect place for a clean get away.
(In this case it didn't matter as it critical hit exploded...)
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