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| What goes into the perfect Epic starter box http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16048 |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
For spurred on by the reminising over 3rd edtion, what goes into the perfect starter box? Certainly Epic got better with each edition, but if you bought GW and ordered all resources turned to Epic, what would you ensure goes in? Rules Well, pretty obvious. Personally I would have a stripped down rulebook with a lot of background in it and basic terrain making and painting info. Aiming to catch the imagination than satisfy lust for rules. The rules would be for the armies in the box which would be balanced for a number of scenarios. Of course there would be a big rulebook for sale and the rules - minus the background section - would be free online. Though I know many players prefer all the rules and armylists to be int he box like 3rd, I can't see the advantage when everyone can get online access. Terrain What is possible these days? I would hope to have enough for the scenarios, at least the basic ones. Armies Well what to pick. I'm sure GW would shoehorn in Marines. Personally I would prefer Guard as the Imperial force. I guess a lot of it would be space and balance. Marines vs Chaos marines would be popular I suspect. Have to have at least one WE in there, and if it were marines a thunderhawk would be the bees knees. Epic being Epic a lot of the appeal is for the titans (though not for me) so probably sensible to include a Titan. If it were marines and chaos maybe a reaver that could be built both ways. If two armeis I would aim for 2000 points of each, though I would be tempted if forced to have marines to have guard, marines and Eldar (as they are a high point to model alien force). So what would be in your starter box? |
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| Author: | tneva82 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 03 Jul. 2009, 08:24 ) Though I know many players prefer all the rules and armylists to be int he box like 3rd, I can't see the advantage when everyone can get online access. Online access isn't same as proper book though. It's not cheap to get pdf printed into proper full colour book and I know I prefer such when playing over bunch of printed paper. So such a starter set would force me to buy separate rulebook anyway. Not good. Main advantage of starter sets(cost efficiency) goes worse that way. No point skimping on rules for starter set. Have it all there. Otherwise you need to price it or separate rulebook very low or starter set isn't such a bargain afterall. |
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| Author: | tneva82 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (Rastamann @ 03 Jul. 2009, 08:49 ) In my opinion, the Epic 40K starter set was one closest to perfection - good variety of forces and some rather nice terrain. My perfect boxed set would, thus, have some elements of that: - 2000 pt SM or IG force - 2000 pt Ork force - One Titan - One Gargant - Urban terrain - some intact, some in ruins - Rulebook I'd preferably go for SM as I think them to be the most iconic of 40k armies, and pair them to Orks because they will always have a special place in my heart and are the pinnacle of the "there is only war" spirit, and have a certain naiveté about them that I find to be very funny Pretty much what I would prefer too. 2 good rounded armies, plenty of terrain. Add in nice shiny rulebook with plenty of background and modeling pieces(or have them in separate booklet if book is becoming too big!). Ah that would be sweet sight. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
I was theoryhammering what would be needed for a new boxed set a few years back and came up with something like: EPIC STARTER SET - THE WAR FOR MACGRAGGE (at the time 'The Battle For MacGragge' was the 40k starter set) - New Space Marine sprue x4 - Tyranid infantry sprue x4 - New Tyranid Sprue x1 - Epic Ruins sprue x4 - Rulebook containing Core rules, plus Tyranid & Codex Marine rules - Dice & whippy stick - Plastic Blast Markers New Space Marine sprue would contain 15 Tacticals, 5 Devestators, 5 Assault Marines, 2 Rhinos. Meaning that 4x sprues would give a full battle company (60 Tactical, 20 Devestator, 20 Assault). New Tyranid Sprue would contain a Hive Tyrant, 3x Biovores, 3x Zoanthropes and 3x plastic carnifexes. The two new sprues would cost about £25,000-£30,000 to have created, with the Marine one being a bit cheaper as vehicles can be done in Zinc. So there you go, contents of a starter set that introduces one new army, and updates the ancient models of another, for a low low price. |
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| Author: | wargame_insomniac [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
If GW were ever to do a new Epic starter set I would presume that they would go for the most popular armies as they would want to get maximum sales. IIRC the 3 most popular armies were SM, IG and Orks, which is why they were in EA rulebook. To give a good balance of opposing forces I would expect them to choose SM & Orks, as Rastamann pointed out SM are GW's iconic army. The one thing I would want in any starter set is some sort of basic army lists for ALL of the armies, as they have done for both W40k anand WFB. It was a big failing of EA in that they failed to include even basic lists for Eldar, Chaos & Nids. It would be even better if could squeeze in even basic lists for say Tau, Necrons etc. Cheers James |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 03 Jul. 2009, 13:06 ) I was theoryhammering what would be needed for a new boxed set a few years back and came up with something like: EPIC STARTER SET - THE WAR FOR MACGRAGGE (at the time 'The Battle For MacGragge' was the 40k starter set) - New Space Marine sprue x4 - Tyranid infantry sprue x4 - New Tyranid Sprue x1 - Epic Ruins sprue x4 - Rulebook containing Core rules, plus Tyranid & Codex Marine rules - Dice & whippy stick - Plastic Blast Markers New Space Marine sprue would contain 15 Tacticals, 5 Devestators, 5 Assault Marines, 2 Rhinos. Meaning that 4x sprues would give a full battle company (60 Tactical, 20 Devestator, 20 Assault). New Tyranid Sprue would contain a Hive Tyrant, 3x Biovores, 3x Zoanthropes and 3x plastic carnifexes. The two new sprues would cost about £25,000-£30,000 to have created, with the Marine one being a bit cheaper as vehicles can be done in Zinc. So there you go, contents of a starter set that introduces one new army, and updates the ancient models of another, for a low low price. Comes in at around 1000pts per side and it could be done in a considerably smaller box than the standard 40k/WHFB or even old Epic boxes and maybe a lower price tag. You need to weigh up the armies involved. Are SM really entrenched at Epic level, could something radical like Nids and Tau work. Alternatively a starter kit of everything to play the game plus your choice of 2 starter armies. If you assume new sprues need to be made then an entire core force could be designed to fit a sprue (Main infantry types and transports/tanks) Probably a bit too much wishful thinking. |
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| Author: | Ghudra [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
I'd steer clear of a traditional starter box and go with a custom online order format. Pick the elements you want, the armies you want, and don't get stuck with any extra "junk". All of what you need for the game will be clearly detailed, but you won't be required to purchase everything if you don't want to. Add in a discounted cost/free shipping for hitting a reasonable $ amount and possibly a limited release mini for those who want to spend more. The problem with starter game boxes has always been that they are a very limited format and don't directly cater to every consumer. AoBR for example is a giant pile of sprooo if you don't like SM or Orkz. |
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| Author: | tneva82 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (arkturas @ 03 Jul. 2009, 15:44 ) You need to weigh up the armies involved. Are SM really entrenched at Epic level, could something radical like Nids and Tau work. Alternatively a starter kit of everything to play the game plus your choice of 2 starter armies. If you assume new sprues need to be made then an entire core force could be designed to fit a sprue (Main infantry types and transports/tanks) Probably a bit too much wishful thinking. Probably space marines would be best bet. They ARE the cash cows of GW so if they would want to appeal for 40k gamers with it(as if. They want them to keep buying more and more 40k space marines) Epic scaled space marines would be most logical choise. It does also provide opposite style to orks. Quality army vs quantity. IG would be another quantity army more or less. 'Nids and Tau might not be that good ideas. Maybe SM vs Tyranids in a style of battle of maccrage but that's it. And yes wishful thinking. Until GW gets new leadership there's not much of chance for them to produce ANYTHING for Epic anymore :-( |
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| Author: | tneva82 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (Ghudra @ 03 Jul. 2009, 15:49 ) I'd steer clear of a traditional starter box and go with a custom online order format.  Pick the elements you want, the armies you want, and don't get stuck with any extra "junk".  All of what you need for the game will be clearly detailed, but you won't be required to purchase everything if you don't want to.  Add in a discounted cost/free shipping for hitting a reasonable $ amount and possibly a limited release mini for those who want to spend more. The problem with starter game boxes has always been that they are a very limited format and don't directly cater to every consumer.  AoBR for example is a giant pile of sprooo if you don't like SM or Orkz. OTOH they can be sold away giving you one VERY cheap rulebook + possibly start of one army. Though for online sale thing starter set isn't that useful but then again starter set idea would be more appropriate for brick&mortar stores where online kit ordering doesn't really work. Also starter sets are mainly targeted for new players who would have little idea of what they wish anyway. So one box that has everything to start with makes sense. |
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| Author: | Ghudra [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Quote: (tneva82 @ 03 Jul. 2009, 07:53 ) Though for online sale thing starter set isn't that useful but then again starter set idea would be more appropriate for brick&mortar stores where online kit ordering doesn't really work. Also starter sets are mainly targeted for new players who would have little idea of what they wish anyway. So one box that has everything to start with makes sense. Good point although Epic is not an entry level GW game and your market target is people who are already familiar with the 40K universe & other small scale wargamers. They could probably do well by going with both an online format for vets and a starter box to generate interest and get more investment out of the younger players. Whatever you put in it, a starter box absolutely MUST include the iconic Titans. Even though Apoc has absorbed some of what Epic was known for, people still associate Epic with Titans. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
Actually if possible I wouldn't pick marines. Give away too much and you would dent further sales. I'd be wanting to hook people, not satisfy them! Of course it could always be 2nd tier marine units (land raiders etc) plus one good one (like a hawk or somesuch). Actually I'd like a few aircraft to be in there as well for both sides. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
The perfect Starter Box would give you the ability to teleport to a Holodeck ... and not have to play with tiny toy soldiers ...    And this comment comes from a guy who has over 15 6mm Sci-fi Armies ...    Weird ... I know ...       ÂÂ
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| Author: | Captsin [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
This is a great topic. Interesting analysis of how to market the game in this thread. They could probably do well by going with both an online format for vets and a starter box to generate interest and get more investment out of the younger players. Really neat idea. Actually if possible I wouldn't pick marines. Give away too much and you would dent further sales. I'd be wanting to hook people, not satisfy them! Absolutely. Especially if they are to be played as an "advanced" army. Put in some Guard against... I'm drawing a blank. Getting sick of orcs for some reason. Nids maybe? Shooty vs fighty? If there is a titan, make it a small one like a beautiful FW one that looks cool but also whets peoples appetites for the big 'uns. Definately throw in a plane, like a thuderbolt. Instead of a rulebook, put in a CD with a copy of the online rules. Make this stuff dynamic. Appeal to mature gamers. Tell them that the rules will constatly be improved and that the online community will be a big part of this game. Anyone that can afford this stuff has internet access anyways. Use it. Be relevent. Create a community. The kids will probably get into this too as they are all over the net as it is. Main thing imho is lots of good terrain. Some buildings, ruins, trees, razor wire, hills, whatever. The original card buildings in Space Marine v1 really captured my imagination. As kids we played a lot of games "protecting the administratum" or "destroying the manufactorum" or whatever those buildings were called. Terrain helps games and feeds the imagination and is, imo, a real pain to get around to making/buying. Put in 2 "special tiles" only found in the starter box for the Planetary Empires game. Maybe a Guard tile and a nid tile? Whatever, something special. Also, have all the armies prepainted and make them all 13mm. Ha ha. Just kidding about that last part! |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | What goes into the perfect Epic starter box |
I love the cd idea. Hell should be taken a bit further and include a free online game like javabowl for epic - javaepic maybe  But yes online integration hasn't been done really yet by GW games whereas other companies have embraced it in a big way. |
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