Tactical Command
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OW fire - FAQ needed
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15723		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ginger [ Sun May 31, 2009 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
1.7.5 transport says the OW fire occurs before disembarkingTransported units may disembark at the end of any move after the move in which is it was picked up. This happens after any overwatch shots (see 1.10) but before the moving formation shoots or assaults. However, TRC remembered an FAQ on the SG boards that put OW fire after disembarking (which also fits in with the notion that disembarking triggers OW) etc. The reasoning being that Deathstrikes (and other OW fire) can relatively easily destroy transports and everything onboard.

Can we put this FAQ back in please
Author:  dptdexys [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
The only FAQ I can find is this
Q: Does Planetfall trigger Overwatch?
A: Landing does not count as movement
for the purposes of triggering enemy
overwatch fire. Disembarking triggers
overwatch fire as normal.
Author:  fredmans [ Sun May 31, 2009 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
As a silly coincidence, I just intended to ask the very same question after spotting the same rule. The overwatch and transport rules somewhat contradict themselves and I cannot find anything in the FAQ either. The overwatch paragraph seems way more generous than the Transport Vehicle rules.

In the overwatch rules (1.10) it is clearly stated that one may shoot at a formation after it completes a move OR unloads troops.

So, as an example where my formation is assaulted, can I choose when to make my overwatch action: before or after it unloads its troops?

As a reference, we have always played it that disembarking/unloading is part of the move and overwatch takes place afterwards.

/Fredmans
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
The ruling is that the OW rules refer to "ground" movement.  Aircraft complete their move as aircraft.  Planetfall is a placement, not a move.  Neither triggers OW until troops unload.

Incidentally, the Planetfall/OW FAQ should have been errata, not an FAQ, as it actually changes an explicit statement in the rules.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
Neal, do you really mean this - so the Orks (and any other races with WE ground transport) can be OW (Death-Struck) with the troops still on board, while Air-transports get to disembark their troops before OW fire?

This sounds like two separate rules that will cause confusion.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
Quote: (Ginger @ 01 Jun. 2009, 15:34 )

Neal, do you really mean this - [ground transport] can be OW (Death-Struck) with the troops still on board, while Air-transports get to disembark their troops before OW fire?

Yep.  That's it exactly.

Ground troops - shot before unloading or after, at the OW option.
Air and Planetfall - only after dismounting.
Author:  fredmans [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
Amusingly, once you get the notion of OW choices, it is explicit in the rules.

I have read the rules so many times, yet new things seem to pop up constantly. At least this makes sense.

"Don't shoot until you see their eyes."

OR

"Get them before they get us"

Plus, it adds tactics to Overwatch.

/Fredmans
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
And here is another aspect that I have just considered:-
After planetfalling, the troops disembark from their transports, triggering OW. So, which formation(s) are legitimate targets for the OW fire?
  • Either the transport or the disembarking troops (They are now separate formations as they had no shooting attack or assault to resolve under 3.1.3)
  • Only the disembarking troops as they have triggered the OW fire (and are now a separate formation as they had no shooting attack or assault to resolve under 3.1.3)
  • Both Transport and disembarking troops (They are considered a single formation until the end of their activation which concludes after the OW fire is resolved).
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
I'd say only the disembarking troops would be the logical way to play it.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
Quote: (Ginger @ 05 Jun. 2009, 15:19 )

  • Both Transport and disembarking troops (They are considered a single formation until the end of their activation which concludes after the OW fire is resolved).

    • To muddy the waters further neither the transport or transported formation are part of the formation currently activated during planetfall, which is the spaceship!
    Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:33 pm ]
    Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
    Good question.

    I'm not sure.

    It's the disembarking troops that are actually moving, so they can definitely be targeted.  I would lean towards allowing the transport to be targeted as well and treat them as separate formations.
    Author:  Ginger [ Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:38 am ]
    Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
    This came up again in a game tonight, and there still appears to be a discrepancy over when OW occurs in respect to ground troops.

    In 1.7.5 Embarking and disembarking are deemed to be part of the "move", and 1.10 Overwatch states A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults. So apparently 1.10 states that OW fire occurs after disembarking.

    However, 1.7.5 gives the contradictory view that disembarking occurs after OW fire. Transported units may disembark at the end of any move after the move in which is it was picked up. This happens after any overwatch shots (see 1.10) but before the moving formation shoots or assaults. IIRC this was discussed on the old SG boards and it was decided that 1.10 took precedence, so all OW fire happened after all disembarking took place. Please could we add an FAQ to that effect.
    Author:  Dave [ Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:39 pm ]
    Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
    Sorry to bring up an hold topic, but I was looking for some clarification on Drop Pods and overwatch fire. Namely, can Marines disembarking from Drop Pods be targeted by Overwatch?
    Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:58 pm ]
    Post subject:  OW fire - FAQ needed
    Quote: (Dave @ Sep. 21 2009, 14:39 )

    can Marines disembarking from Drop Pods be targeted by Overwatch?

    Yes.  Disembarking triggers OW, no matter what kind of transport.
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