Tactical Command
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MW and TK in assaults
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15514		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  GR00V3R [ Wed May 06, 2009 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
We seek guidance!  :))

Going by the Handbook 2008, for the following units, how any of their assault attacks (CC of FF) are MW attacks?

Vindicators (any MW?)
Avatar (all or only extra attacks?)
Warlock (all or only extra attacks?)

Help!
Author:  Chroma [ Wed May 06, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (GR00V3R @ 06 May 2009, 12:29 )

Avatar (all or only extra attacks?)
Warlock (all or only extra attacks?)

This thread should help with those two: Avatar CC Attacks
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Wed May 06, 2009 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
2nd Q :) (we're playing a vassal game against each other right now):

in assaults with both normal and MW hits, the normal hits are allocated 1st, then the MW hits. BUT is the hit allocation process the same (ie front to back, after casualties) or can you only assign them to units that hadn't been allocated a normal hit?
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed May 06, 2009 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
It's two seperate rounds of allocations. So units save normal hits can be targeted by MW/TK hits.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed May 06, 2009 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (mattthemuppet @ 06 May 2009, 13:33 )

in assaults with both normal and MW hits, the normal hits are allocated 1st, then the MW hits. BUT is the hit allocation process the same (ie front to back, after casualties) or can you only assign them to units that hadn't been allocated a normal hit?

Start over, front to back.
Author:  GR00V3R [ Wed May 06, 2009 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Excellent. We did it right, then. Yay us!  :agree:

(Man, that Avatar packs some serious BAD JUJU.)  :))

PS  Okay...I'm going to bed now. Veeery sleeeepy...   :;):
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Wed May 06, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
beware the bloody handed god  :evil: !

Still plenty of time to kick my ass, though losing 5 units of terminators to lowly guardians for only 1 wave serpent has to hurt (dig dig!) :)
Author:  stompzilla [ Wed May 06, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Hahaha, i've taken to calling the avatar "The holy hand grenade".

Pull the pin and throw him in!

On a related note, i was going to start a new thread but this seems as good a place as any to ask:

Wraithguard: It's just the extra attack that gets the MW FF right?  So 1 normal and 1 MW FF@ 4+.

Also, while i have your attention, what's epic UKs view on the Firedragon exarch issue?  My reading of the book seems to indicate that the exarch EA DOES gain the MW ability since it clearly says in the unit's notes that Firedragons FF value is a MW.  Some clarification on how it's treated at your tournaments would be appreciated though.
Author:  GR00V3R [ Wed May 06, 2009 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
True story. He's hardcore! Waded through my Terminators like a hot knife through butter (much to mattthemuppet's delight).  :))

My inner Force Commander is somewhat mollified by the knowledge that the Avatar can't teleport in response to my teleport, though (see Order of teleports thread; yay Strategy Rating 5!). So while he's COMPLETELY BAS-@SS, at least he's limited in application.

Thanks for your help, all.  :))
Author:  Markconz [ Thu May 07, 2009 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (stompzilla @ 07 May 2009, 10:34 )

Wraithguard: It's just the extra attack that gets the MW FF right?  So 1 normal and 1 MW FF@ 4+.

Correct.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu May 07, 2009 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (GR00V3R @ 06 May 2009, 23:25 )

True story. He's hardcore! Waded through my Terminators like a hot knife through butter (much to mattthemuppet's delight).  :))

My inner Force Commander is somewhat mollified by the knowledge that the Avatar can't teleport in response to my teleport, though (see Order of teleports thread; yay Strategy Rating 5!). So while he's COMPLETELY BAS-@SS, at least he's limited in application.

Thanks for your help, all.  :))

Umm, on the teleports, it depends on how the Marine player handles it. If the marine teleports first, then the Eldar player can teleport the Avatar in response. However, under the 2008 Errata the cunning Marine player can force the Eldar to "teleport" first.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu May 07, 2009 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (stompzilla @ 06 May 2009, 22:34 )

Also, while i have your attention, what's epic UKs view on the Firedragon exarch issue?  My reading of the book seems to indicate that the exarch EA DOES gain the MW ability since it clearly says in the unit's notes that Firedragons FF value is a MW.  Some clarification on how it's treated at your tournaments would be appreciated though.

This has been debated extensively over time, see the responses here and the link to an earlier thread.

In essence, the Firedragon MW is a weapon note, so the extra attack (from the character's additional weapon) does not get MW.
Author:  stompzilla [ Thu May 07, 2009 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
That's not what's written in the unit's notes though.

The fusion gun does not give the Firedragons an extra attack; instead they add the macro weapon ability to the unit's firefight value.

(Emphasis mine}

The notes clearly say that the unit's FF value is macro weapon.  It then follows that any extra attacks added to the unit would also benefit from this ability.

If this note was missing then one would assume that it was weapon specific - as is the case with howling banshees, however it is not.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu May 07, 2009 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
Quote: (stompzilla @ 07 May 2009, 01:15 )

It then follows that any extra attacks added to the unit would also benefit from this ability.

Why?
Author:  Ginger [ Thu May 07, 2009 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  MW and TK in assaults
And that is indeed the source of the debate as the note can be read in a number of ways. However I understand the current view is that the note describes how the FireDragon's fusion gun functions as a MW in both ranged shooting and firefights. Since the character is adding a separate weapon (which gains the extra attack) and this is not a MW in itself, the view is that the extra attack is not MW.

The main difference between the 'unit note' of FireDragons and Warp Spiders is that while First Strike describes the way that the Warp Spider unit works, Macro Weapon is self-evidently describing the function of the FireDragon's weapon not the FireDragon unit.
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