Tactical Command
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Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15363		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup


Yes, I am a master of artistry. Pheer my leet Paint skillz.

The rules for cover indicate that a unit partially in cover is considered in cover. So in the above example, the two pink infantry stands are in cover in the Woods terrain feature.

Can the transport pick these units up without taking a terrain test? If so, is this considered a legitimate tactic, or is it being cheesy?

Morgan Vening
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
The question over whether the infantry in the diagram are in cover is one of the "5 min" warm up issues.

However, to the question, 1.7.5 says that . . . . Transport vehicles can pick up and carry units as part of the transport vehicle’s move. The vehicle simply moves into base contact with the unit to be picked up, and then carries on with its move as normal. Note that the transported unit is not allowed to move themselves during the move when they are picked up. . . . . So the vehicle may move into contact with the infantry and pick them up without penalty. Indeed, provided the edge of the infantry base is at the edge of the terrain I would suggest that the vehicle can still pick up the unit without penalty.

Note, vehicles may enter dangerous terrain to pick up troops, but have to take one or more DT tests when doing so.
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Quote: (Ginger @ 20 Apr. 2009, 10:19 )

Note, vehicles may enter dangerous terrain to pick up troops, but have to take one or more DT tests when doing so.

Yes, and I generally have a few heart stopping moments with battlefortresses every time I use my orks due to this...  :))
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Quote: (Hena @ 20 Apr. 2009, 05:37 )

Just to support others, we do it that way all the time.

Just clarifying Hena, you allow the pickup with or without a Dangerous Terrain test? And you allow 'clipping embarkations' as above?

Morgan Vening
Author:  asaura [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Hena meant that we allow pickups from cover without a DT test.
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 19 Apr. 2009, 22:06 )

or is it being cheesy?

Morgan Vening

You said it Morgan    :no:
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
The rules are pretty clear on this.  Partially in cover gains the modifier.  However, base contact clearly does not require entering the terrain.  As long as enough of the model is sticking out for the vehicle to touch, no terrain checks are needed for the vehicle.

Of course, this can on occasion be a detriment, as when it allows vehicles or mounted infantry to Engage in CC without needing to make a terrain check.
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Quote: (nealhunt @ Apr. 20 2009, 23:22 )

The rules are pretty clear on this.  Partially in cover gains the modifier.  However, base contact clearly does not require entering the terrain.  As long as enough of the model is sticking out for the vehicle to touch, no terrain checks are needed for the vehicle.

Of course, this can on occasion be a detriment, as when it allows vehicles or mounted infantry to Engage in CC without needing to make a terrain check.

TRC

I found this one again in regards to our discussion via Vassal.

You can be partially in terrain, claim the bonus, and get a pick up without a DTT.

Just thought this one may interest you

Cheers....
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Yes, I wonder how others play it at tournies as al the games I can remember feature it (taking the test) as standard.
Author:  Man of kent [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
Buildings is the classic example: the vehicle can't go into them so how does it pick the infantry up and move off unless the formation is taking a double?!
Whilst the rules are pretty clear that they can't in friendly games we allow pickup with no DT test.
However; the 'clipping piickup' described above does get round the whole issue quite nicely and legitimately i feel
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
But that is definatively a rule that favours long thin bases that can claim as much as possible. I've always played if you in buildings the infantry have to move out first, which I think is entirely fair considering they piled in to get the 4+ save and getting the men moving from such a comfy position will always be a bit tiresome.

It also of course degrades elite troops like marines who become more flexible and mobile in comparison to guardsmen who like to get into cover at every opportunity.
Author:  GlynG [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
If the troops were pretty far into an area of ruins that the vehicle needed to enter it to pick them up then I would take a test, but generally I don’t take difficult terrain tests for infantry moving out of a building or wood (if opponents insisted I would do so but reluctantly).

The rule just seems really very silly, a Marine Rhino or Eldar Falcon parks next to a building and the troops run out and climb aboard – how is this so dangerous for the vehicle that 1 is 6 times it will crash and be destroyed? Surely that it is no way realistic for how this plays out?

They are highly trained and skilled drivers with advanced future technology and super-human reflexes, I’m sure they can park their vehicle better than this! It’s not like the vehicle literally enters the building – are really telling me a Falcon is meant to ram through several concrete walls to move itself to its troops rather than them running out? If it actually tried that that would almost certainly destroy itself (like 90%+ likely not 1 in 6 likely) and possibly bring parts of the building down on the troops inside.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules Clarifications - Transport Pickup
The thought of crashing never crossed my mind, rather booby traps, sappers and unexploded munitions would be the danger in that environment. (Well and rusty nails.)
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