Tactical Command
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Ground Attack correct?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15055		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  daemonkin [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
We had a game last night marine v marine. Just want to know if we did ground attack correctly as there were a few added elements.

Opponent had thunderbolts on CAP.
I ground attacked with thunderhawk into land raiders
My thunderhawk entered flak bubble from hunter so we stopped and he shot not doing anything.
I carried on to complete my ground attack.
Now, before I disembark the enemy on CAP can intercept. So he lines up his t'bolts (4 using Imperial Fists list).
He then proceeds forward and now enters my Thunderhawk's Flak bubble.
So I shoot at him and take out 2.
The remaining 2 do nothing.
Finally my troops disembark and assault.

Are the steps outlined correct?

D.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Nearly, blast markers on air formations do not cause supression so the remaing two T'bolt's should have shot at the T'hawk.
Author:  daemonkin [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Misunderstanding. Should have said:

Remaining thunderbolts were typical of Imperial Navy units and could not hit a barn (in this case flying brick) at 5 paces.

The T'bolts missed BTW.

So everything was ok?

D.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Yep, looks fine to me.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
One question, did the T'bolts come at you from the front? They would have been better off coming in from the side and staying 30cms away. Then the T'hawk couldn't have shot at them.

The CAP intercept happens while the T'hawk is still in the air so the T'bolts have to end their move in the T'hawks range/LOF.

After the attack the T'hawk becomes a normal ground unit with Flak AA, so air formations overflying the T'hawk can get shot.
Author:  daemonkin [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Quote: (Mephiston @ 06 Mar. 2009, 14:16 )

The CAP intercept happens while the T'hawk is still in the air so the T'bolts have to end their move in the T'hawks range/LOF.

In order to come under flak from T'Hawk?

Am I right in saying that AA fire from flyers still extends a flak bubble like a normal ground unit?

For instance I intercept with T'bolts on CAP and finish my move in and open fire. Later in the same turn enemy flyers come into my flak zone. I can now shoot them if the enemy are in my weapon arc and range.

D.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
If the unit is "in the air" then the target has to finish its move in their fire arc and range.

Units that are on the ground get to flak flyers that move through their LOF and range.

So when intercepting a flyer using CAP the target only gets to fire if you end your move in its fire arc and range.
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Opponent had thunderbolts on CAP.
I ground attacked with thunderhawk into land raiders
My thunderhawk entered flak bubble from hunter so we stopped and he shot not doing anything.
I carried on to complete my ground attack.
Now, before I disembark the enemy on CAP can intercept. So he lines up his t'bolts (4 using Imperial Fists list).
He then proceeds forward and now enters my Thunderhawk's Flak bubble.
So I shoot at him and take out 2.
The remaining 2 do nothing.
Finally my troops disembark and assault.

I think this is incorrect.  When you declare that you are going to perform a ground attack, your opponent may declare that he will activate his CAP formation (just like an overwatch).  Once your Thunderhawk moved into position, then the CAP should have been moved into position.  Then all the hits should have been resolved in this order:

Ground Flak vs. Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk vs T-Bolts
T-Bolts vs Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk does ground attack
Author:  daemonkin [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Quote: (Moscovian @ 06 Mar. 2009, 14:45 )

I think this is incorrect.  When you declare that you are going to perform a ground attack, your opponent may declare that he will activate his CAP formation (just like an overwatch).  Once your Thunderhawk moved into position, then the CAP should have been moved into position.  Then all the hits should have been resolved in this order:

Ground Flak vs. Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk vs T-Bolts
T-Bolts vs Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk does ground attack

That is what I did:

Ground Flak vs. Thunderhawk - Hunter attacks THawk
Thunderhawk vs T-Bolts - THawk kills 2
T-Bolts vs Thunderhawk - TBolts kill 0
Thunderhawk does ground attack - THawk and tacticals assault.

Didn't I?

D.
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
Mosc is correct.  All the aircraft movement happens before any attacks are resolved.
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground Attack correct?
(Edit, so Neal got in first, but mine is the more complete answer :p )

daemonkin, from what I read you did not quite follow the correct process as you allowed ground AA to engage the THawk after it had moved but before the TBolts on CAP moved.

What should have happened is that the THawk moves, followed by the TBolts on CAP. At that point you follow a LIFO process (Last In First Out).
1) Ground and air AA shoot at the TBolts before they complete their CAP mission,
2) Ground and air AA shoot at the THawk before it completes its Ground Attack mission.

What Mephiston was trying to suggest revolves around where you positioned the TBolts relative to the THawk, because its defensive AA is a single 15cm AA5+ shot everywhere except the Fixed Forward arc at the front of the unit. As the TBolts have some 30cm weapons, they could have stayed in the rear of the THawk outside the defensive AA bubble and still had 4x AA5+ shots (which become AA4+ with the 2008 errata).
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