| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
|
| Some rule questions http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15000 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Ginger [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Some questions that came up over the weekend:- 1) Aircraft activate and move onto the battlefield, completing their flying missions. Later in the turn, an enemy air formation ends up in the arc of fire, so can they be shot at by the earlier formation? 2) When using OW fire on assaulting enemy transports, can they player choose to fire on the transports before the troops have disembarked, or do they wait until after the move is complete? |
|
| Author: | Lord Inquisitor [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Quote: (Ginger @ 01 Mar. 2009, 20:09 ) 1) Aircraft activate and move onto the battlefield, completing their flying missions. Later in the turn, an enemy air formation ends up in the arc of fire, so can they be shot at by the earlier formation? Oh yes!! Note that only if they end their move in the arc, not if they just move through (Hena pointed this out to me), so it doesn't come up that often. 2) When using OW fire on assaulting enemy transports, can they player choose to fire on the transports before the troops have disembarked, or do they wait until after the move is complete? At the end of each move, so yeah, after disembarkation. |
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
2) When using OW fire on assaulting enemy transports, can they player choose to fire on the transports before the troops have disembarked, or do they wait until after the move is complete? The OW rule say after a move or after disembarking. My take on it is you can choose to fire on them while loaded or wait until the troops get out. While it seems like you'd want to always shoot at the transports while loaded, better AP and/or worse armor on the infantry could make the chance of kills better if you wait. |
|
| Author: | Lord Inquisitor [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
You are absolutely right, I'm sorry. Indeed, it says so in the rule itself! Transported units may disembark at the end of any move after the move in which is it was picked up. This happens after any overwatch shots (see 1.10) but before the moving formation shoots or assaults. Duh. I need to check the damn rules again before posting! 
|
|
| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 02 Mar. 2009, 01:13 ) Quote: (Ginger @ 01 Mar. 2009, 20:09 ) 1) Aircraft activate and move onto the battlefield, completing their flying missions. Later in the turn, an enemy air formation ends up in the arc of fire, so can they be shot at by the earlier formation? Oh yes!! Note that only if they end their move in the arc, not if they just move through (Hena pointed this out to me), so it doesn't come up that often. This needs to be clarified (within the rules or in the FAQ), I think. Upon further reading, I can now see this interpretation, but it still doesn't spring to mind as being so*. The line about arcs seems to be there to circumvent the LOS rules normally associated with Flak. The intermixing of what I feel are two seperate rules (AA attacks and Flak attacks). * If an Intercepting unit has an enemy aircraft fly through it's weapon range and arcs, does it get to fire? It's not on a Ground Attack mission, so that rule wouldn't apply? Also, what about a bomber on a Ground Attack mission that has an enemy bomber on Ground Attack pass within it's range and arcs? Does it get to fire, or no? Also, after re-reading the Aircraft rules again, is it accurate that an Intercepting unit that gets shot at by the Ground Attack unit it is targetting, does NOT receive Blast Markers? The main reason I've held our group off from using 4.0 is because of the complexity of the rules as written. If you know the intent, rules can be easy to learn, but from a cold read, a more linear approach needs to be given. I have a tonne (1.10231131 US tons) of respect for the ERC, and don't mean any form of disparagement. But I feel 4.0 is in need of work. Morgan Vening |
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Morgan: As far as the terminology, it's a bit confusing but I think straightening it out will make it much easier to read the rules. An "AA attack" is any attack against a flying aircraft. A "flak attack" is an AA attack done in response to the enemy aircraft's movement, regardless of whether the source is a ground unit or aircraft. Even though "flak" sounds like it should come from the ground, it actually just denotes reactive fire. The exception for not having a target in range/arc when firing a flak attack is only applicable to ground units. It never says it applies to aircraft, so the normal range/arc limitations apply. Only ground units get the "fly by" attack. * If an Intercepting unit has an enemy aircraft fly through it's weapon range and arcs, does it get to fire? If it stops in the range/arc, it does. Simply flying through the arc does not trigger flak attacks for aircraft. It's not on a Ground Attack mission, so that rule wouldn't apply? The note is an explanation of that situation, not a limitation. Also, what about a bomber on a Ground Attack mission that has an enemy bomber on Ground Attack pass within it's range and arcs? Does it get to fire, or no? Only if the enemy bomber stops inside range and fire arc. Also, after re-reading the Aircraft rules again, is it accurate that an Intercepting unit that gets shot at by the Ground Attack unit it is targetting, does NOT receive Blast Markers? This is not accurate. The defensive fire from the Ground Attack unit is a reactive "flak attack" and generates BMs. |
|
| Author: | NickRice [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Quote: (Ginger @ 02 Mar. 2009, 01:09 ) Some questions that came up over the weekend:- 1) Aircraft activate and move onto the battlefield, completing their flying missions. Later in the turn, an enemy air formation ends up in the arc of fire, so can they be shot at by the earlier formation? 2) When using OW fire on assaulting enemy transports, can they player choose to fire on the transports before the troops have disembarked, or do they wait until after the move is complete? Does landing an aircraft trigger overwatch prior to disembarking troops? 
|
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Quote: (NickRice @ 04 Mar. 2009, 16:02 ) Does landing an aircraft trigger overwatch prior to disembarking troops?  Nope.  "Moving" for the purposes of OW means ground moves.  Landing aircraft and Planetfall units do not count as having taken a ground move so they don't trigger OW until/unless something disembarks. == edit: OW can also be triggered if the aircraft/planetfall craft makes a move. That might sound silly since they are usually 0cm move, but if the aircraft takes an action that allows a move that counts as if it took a 0cm move. Same thing for units that elect to take no move, e.g. a formation that takes an Engage action but moves no units still counts as having taken a move of 0cm and would trigger OW. |
|
| Author: | Mephiston [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Ok, one more question. Forlorn hope arrive in a dreadclaw and put their zone of control over a formation on overwatch. The formation on overwatch choses to not shoot the forlorn hope. Then a retinue arrive in another dreadclaw nearby. Can the formation on overwatch shoot the retinue or must it now either remain on overwatch or move out of the forlorn hopes zone of control? |
|
| Author: | Ginger [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Interesting question. IMO the formation may use their OW even if they are within the ZoC of the scouts (Forlorn hope) because they do not need to activate to do so. However, at the point they decide to activate, then they must either engage the Forlorn hope, or move out of its ZoC. |
|
| Author: | Mephiston [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Yes, but by using up their overwatch they have taken their action for that turn! |
|
| Author: | Ginger [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
So how about this situation:- 1) The formation activates and goes on OW 2) The Forlorn Hope activates and moves to cover the formation with ZoC. 3) Later a Retinue activates, moves into range and the OW is used. 4) In the following turn, the formation is still in the Forlorn Hope's ZoC, so when it activates it must either engage them or move out of their ZoC (which could still mean attacking the Retinue in some fashion). |
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
They can stay on OW. They don't have to move until they take an action. firing on OW "counts as" the formation taking an activation that turn, but it's not the same as actually taking an action. 1.10 even repeats itself to further differentiate firing from activating by stating explicitly that firing on OW prevents the formation from activating later on. |
|
| Author: | dptdexys [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some rule questions |
Quote: (Mephiston @ 04 Mar. 2009, 16:12 ) Forlorn hope arrive in a dreadclaw and put their zone of control over a formation on overwatch. The formation on overwatch choses to not shoot the forlorn hope. Then a retinue arrive in another dreadclaw nearby. Can the formation on overwatch shoot the retinue or must it now either remain on overwatch or move out of the forlorn hopes zone of control? They would be able to shoot at the retinue. Being in the scouts ZofC would mean they would have to engage or move away when they next activated,but being on overwatch they are classed as having already activated (to go on OW even if they started the game that way) and using their OW shots is not making an activation. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|