Tactical Command
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Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14897		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bmans5 [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Had a good game tonite, but a few questions came up

Question 1.
In a fit of crazy, I had a detachment of 4 Terminators Engage a Reaver Titan in Close combat. Managed to inflict a point of damage, but lost 2 terminator stands in the process...now the question became, when we did the roll off at the end, he scored a 8 me a 6. so by reading the rules, the Terminators weren't broken, so didn't have to withdraw (or did they...probably need this clarified too) so they way i read the rule the 2 hits with no saves are only applied to troops that break and run (they are cut down as they run)...they didn't run, so would these attacks still take place?

Question 2.
The Armageddon book shows a Barrage of 3 points has a AT 6+....the Epic Armageddon Handbook 2008 ( i think i got it from specialist games before they shutdown the site...and that sucks) shows a AT 5+.....which is right?

hoep these aren't dumb questions  :laugh:
Author:  vytzka [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Actually, intelligently used Terminators are one of the prime ways for Marines to take down or at least break titans. Always put a blast marker on the big guy with shooting beforehand, have some support nearby (doubling Land Speeders work wonders for both of these goals), have a Chaplain for +1 in assault resolution and remember that you ignore the first blast marker on yourself (which will usually be enough to negate teleportation effects). TWO terminator formations, with one Chaplain and one Commander for a combined assault will probably murder all but the most CC oriented titans in the game.

Anyway, to your points.

1) Loser is ALWAYS broken in the assault, without regards to blast marker situation. The good thing is They Shall Know No Fear rule halves the "cut down" hits as well so you'd only have lost one Terminator stand.

2) They're both "right"... 2008 version is "newer". It's your choice whether to use the basic rulebook or the addition of Errata (which also changes some things related to assault and aircraft) in your group, but most people worldwide seem to have moved to the latter.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Quote: (vytzka @ 19 Feb. 2009, 02:49 )

... have a Chaplain for +1 in assault resolution and remember that you ignore the first blast marker on yourself (which will usually be enough to negate teleportation effects)...

I don't believe the bold part is correct, as per the 08 Errata

Space Marine formations only count half their number of blast markers in assault resolution (rounding down - note that assault resolution will not receive +1 for having no blast marker if the formation has 1 blast marker before rounding down).
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Quote: (Dave @ 19 Feb. 2009, 14:18 )

Quote: (vytzka @ 19 Feb. 2009, 02:49 )

... have a Chaplain for +1 in assault resolution and remember that you ignore the first blast marker on yourself (which will usually be enough to negate teleportation effects)...

I don't believe the bold part is correct, as per the 08 Errata

Space Marine formations only count half their number of blast markers in assault resolution (rounding down - note that assault resolution will not receive +1 for having no blast marker if the formation has 1 blast marker before rounding down).

Correct in that it doesn't count for 'no blast markers', but I believe it DOES count for 'more than'.

Example,
Terminators have 1 BM.
Opponents have 0 BM.

Battle result
Your Formation has no blast markers. Term +0, Oppo +1
The opposing formation has more blast markers. Terms +0, Oppo +0.

So assuming the squad gets that 1BM from teleporting, the ATSKNF rule + Chaplain negate that single BM (which on any other army would be a +2 shift).

Morgan Vening
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 19 Feb. 2009, 20:49 )

So assuming the squad gets that 1BM from teleporting, the ATSKNF rule + Chaplain negate that single BM (which on any other army would be a +2 shift).

Sorry, but this didn't actually make it into the "official 2008 errata", but was a proposal in the Handbook, that Jervis cut.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
I'd still count 1/2 of a BM as more than 0 BM, so...

SM: 1BM
Opponent: 0BM
---
+2 resolution to Opponent (+1 for no BM and +1 for less BM than SM)

SM: 1BM
Opponent: 1BM
---
+1 resolution to SM (+1 for less BM than Opponent)
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Chroma:  The 1/2 BM and the 2xBM removal for Leader both made it into the TSKNF errata.  Pg 4, section 5.1.1.

==

Dave:  It says "round down" so 1BM counts as 0BM for who has more.  However, it explicitly states you don't get the +1 for having none.  It should be...

M: 1BM (rounds down to 0BM)
Opponent: 0BM
---
+1 resolution to Opponent (+1 for no BMs, no mod for having fewer BMs than SMs)
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Quote: (nealhunt @ 19 Feb. 2009, 21:22 )

Chroma:  The 1/2 BM and the 2xBM removal for Leader both made it into the TSKNF errata.  Pg 4, section 5.1.1.

Well tickle me pink!
Author:  vytzka [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Argh, I've been playing it wrong :sigh: I can't believe I managed to misread that.

Oh well, +1 in assault resolution is nothing to laugh at either.
Author:  bmans5 [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
cool, thanks for the Answers...and more info that i was unaware of   :grin:
hopefully a good reading of the rules before next game should help out, again thanks for the answers....now...i must Paint like I have never painted before...and work on more modular city terrain (photos of said terrain will show up when i can find my Digital camera's USB cable) :sad:
Author:  bmans5 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
New Question to add....do those extra hits cause blast markers for loosing those units?
Author:  zombocom [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Questions: Titans, CC, and Barrage
Quote: (bmans5 @ 28 Feb. 2009, 08:19 )

New Question to add....do those extra hits cause blast markers for loosing those units?

You mean the extra kills for losing an assault? No, they don't cause blast markers, otherwise they'd set off a chain reaction which would instantly wipe out the formation...
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