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Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

anzacmaniac

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:29 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:28 am
Posts: 16

Thanks for the link Jimbo.

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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:41 am

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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

I have the DSM 6mm dropship and it isn't too impressive.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Gandalf the Grey

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:45 pm

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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 789
Location: Tampa, Florida

Well, many of you know I've dropped off for awhile. I have visited the Specialist Games site from time to time looking for pics of new minis, and read a thread or two in the forum, but that's about it. I just jumped on today and read Jerivs's Fanatic Re-organization and thought to myself, "Well, there goes Fanatic."

Maybe I am kind of rushing to things here or being pessimistic, but I am a fan of many of Fanatic's games and to be honest they haven't kept my interest in any of the games they support. There's a few reasons for this, and honestly I think they could learn a few things from their competition.

I know Fanatic is part of GW, and I know they are on a shoe-string budget, but I am not going to throw my money away on products I don't like. GW isn't a charity after all. If they aren't going to support their games seriously, why should I? In most cases I have everything I need in the original rulesets, like Necromunda or Bloodbowl.

And the one thing that Fanatic can do to keep things more interesting is update their website more often. What the hell does their Webmaster do for most of the week? Not only is the website near poo in design, but the whole effort seems half-hearted.

I remember when I got into that arguement with Jervis and Pixel about the Epic site being a HUB for Epic period, not just playtesting, they seemed to grasp the long term benefit of attracting attention. Not everyone is into playtesting rules. How about scenerios? Updated galleries?

And how long does it take to hammer out an army list? I never had a big problem with previous editions of Epic, and they didn't take two years to come up with a ruleset for an army.

And then the first new army, the Baran Seigemasters? Or whatever- I thought they were the Kreig something. These minis are poo. I understand if you are a die hard Epic fan and love a 6mm scale model period, but to the average gamer I think they must blow.

Epic should have hit the market as an explosion, not with some recycled fluff and some real garbage for minis. When I first saw the new Land Raider, I was blown away. I loved the Predators and new Rhinos too. But since then everything has been a disappointment. I feel like I could do better, and I've never sculted anything before.

I've been disappointed with other new Fanatic releases like those for Necromunda, but Mordheim has been pretty cool. So has Warmaster and Gothic. Actually, Bloodbowl is fine, and I am not really into Inquisitor, so I can't say I care. But the system I am most unimpressed with is Epic.

Baran Siegemasters?

? Come on. I would say go for it a few years down the line, but to delay Chaos and the Eldar??? For the Baran??? If Epic isn't exciting to some people, it's the lack of variety in the armies available now. Why hold off on releasing one of the most popular armies, when most of it is going to be recycled anyway??

Well, I like Jervis as a game designer, but as far as running the strategy of support for Fanatic I think he's come up light. I know he's got resource and budget restraints, but still. He's made some odd-ball decisions.

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wargame_insomniac

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm
Posts: 3305
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

I agree with some of your criticisms of Fanatic but not all.

At my local gaming club only myself and 2 others have got excited about Epic Armageddon enough to go out and buy the rulebook. And I am the only club member to have gone out and bought new figures (because I had so little Epic stuff).

The reason many of the other club members were peeved was the release schedule and the lack of initial army list for Eldar, Chaos and Nids. As a mnimum thy should have had these 3 lists in the basic rulebook, even if as an appendix for friendly games only with no piccies or descriptions, so that older Epic players could start playing these armies from day one.

This would have still allowed time for tournament lists for these 3 armies to be thoroughly playtested but allowed people to use their old figures in freindly games from day one of the release. This would have got more people excited about the game and would have meant that more people would have been prepared to part with the hard earned cash to buy proper tournament lists and new figures such as when Swordwind is finally released.

I think that Chaos and Nids should have been released as tournament list before Baran Siegemasters or Feral Orks or even Black Templars.

Cheers

James

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CyberShadow

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:23 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9337
Location: Singapore

I think that one of the biggest mistakes that has been made (so far) is the over-estimation of the web support. It is simply a fact that not all gamers are willing to participate online. I have an interest in a LOT of games, and I own the rules for the lot of different sets, but I physically cant visit all of the relevant web sites, so I visit the sites of my favourite couple of games. With Epic being a new edition, and having a bad reputation, you simply cant rely on the web community being large enough and wealthy enough to float a game of GW proportions alone. It is important that the game reaches out and attracts clubs and players all over. And that simply is not happening.

I do think that Jervis has done a fantastic job, and that it is impossible to juggle everything. I dont want to be pessimistic (this board is getting a reputation for that already), but I cant see a bright future for Fanatic, and Epic in particular.

To say that forces such as the Tyranids and Chaos will not have official lists for around four years is a little crazy.

Epic does not have the appeal to hold people for that amount of time, and a reliance on the internet support will not generate the appeal required.

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Killed by Death

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:40 pm

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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:47 pm
Posts: 387

I have not played Epic in earlier versions, but I absolutely love the one around now.

I agree that in retrospect it would have been smarter to release all the main armies as lists.. possibly even doing the models all at once! With the old sprues..

Thinking about it: More websupport and fewer new minis is a very daring move when you're dealing with a miniatures game...

Everyone who does not have a computer wouldn't know other than that there's just fewer new minis...

But as someone said: What's to improve on the websupport?

Reading Jervis newest post - he's staying as Head Fanatic.. the two others guys are both going to do online stuff. One is maintaining all the websites (Krelle) and the other is going to do fanatic magazine online... erhmm...

Essentially this means that Jervs will be doing all the SG games himself? With some help from the main design studio?!

Wov... that's ambitious!

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primarch

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:16 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

Well Gandalf, can say I can argue any of your points...

..mainly becuase I agree with all of them.... :;):

Hey CS, who said we have a reputation for being pessimistic on these forums?

I'd say if anything we are "realistic" in our outlook and views. I find the fanboy drivel on some other sites to have little basis in reality.

I'm constantly surprised by how "surprised" some people on other forums act with the recent turn of events. Disappointed I can understand, but surprised?

It seems they did not read or beleive my many posts on why the current epic attempt would fail even before it was released.... :;):

Too bad I can predict lotto numbers....

Primarch

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iblisdrax

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:58 am

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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm
Posts: 3381
Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.

I think that the only thing disappointing at this point is the decision, for whatever reason, to release non core armies before the core ones. I would love to have new pieces for my Chaos forces, since they are cobbled together from many sources (not that that is a bad thing for chaos

). I also think that maybe this board is a little pessimistic, but honestly, has GW done anything to change that attitude in the past few years? The only bright spot was the rerelease of Epic, and that done grudgingly with little support. Now the whole Fanatic division has been reduced to 3 people, with 'support' from the main GW body. Whatever. Such 'support' could be very very little, and cut off with the wave of a hand. But, as been said before, this comes as no suprise here.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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primarch

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:25 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

In an attempt to make this board more optimistic....

How's that? :;):

Primarch

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dafrca

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:12 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA

You guys are all wrong, GW is da bomb. They rock. The stuff's da best and they are always right dudes...

....

?....

dam, I have to stop channeling that fan boy. :laugh:

dafrca

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dafrca

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:20 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
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Location: Burbank, CA, USA

Quote (Gandalf the Grey @ 29 2004 Nov.,08:45)

Gandalf,

The only part of your post I disagree with is that somehow Jervis is the one behind all these choices. I think that is naive. Jervis is not in charge any more then I am here at the company I work for. At the end of the day, Jervis can suggest, politic for, and argue for what he believes. But if the suits decide the return on investment is not there, they will make choices that, too us, seem odd. I think you are placing too much on Jervis.

Other then that, you are not saying anything we all have not said for the last few weeks/months. Welcome to the club. :;):

dafrca

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Legion 4

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:57 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA

With the attenuated release schedule, Fanatic Mag going the way of, Firepower and Epic Mag ... well it just does not feel right. Of course I'm very "old school" and we don't play Epic "from the box" !

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chubbybob

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:57 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:15 am
Posts: 107

Rant begins (and I make no apologies for the strength of its conviction):-

As one of the "old men" of the hobby with a long memory for games that came and went and companies that flared brightly then died, I believe Jervis not only held his own at fanatic but conquered and prospered. Those critisicing him have very short memories. Before he started epic was all but dead and buried, mighty empires long cremated, BFG gasping it's last with just a few empire and chaos ships released, Bloodbowl a fond memory and necromunda lost in space.

HOW DIFFERENT are things now. BFG has more ships than you can shake a stick at. Epic has three almost complete ranges available and a new core set of rules and its veteran players have had their interest revived. Jervis brief was to get back the veteran gamers in a market that was disappearing in a mass of 10-14 year old yah booh sucks waaaagh gamers. The quality of this board and the fanatic boards along with the current availability of the non core games are proof he did well. The problem with the bulk of players of GW games is they are used to being led by the nose from birth to death and expect the hobby delivered on a plate. IF the non core games are about to disappear once more up their proverbial rear ends it won't be because Jervis failed to direct his energies but because WE THE PUBLIC failed to pump in enough cash sales to make the GW suits think the expenditure worthwhile to support their financial investments in a profit making organisation.
? ? ? ? ? Its way too easy for us to sit back and moan that GW have not done enough to promote our favourite game albeit "EpicA" or "Sexy Sue and the sex slaves". GW provide the means and the manner, it's US THE PUBLIC that need to get out to our local clubs and groups and promote that game to our fellow players.

THATS HOW IT WORKS FOR HISTORICAL GAMERS. There are rulesets out there that are played all around the world such as the DBx range of rulesets that are played not because the writer is a publishing & distribution genius but because enough players put in the effort to push the rules around the world. I'm sorry but the blame and our salvation does not lie in the hands of Jervis etc but with us the players who put in the real effort. How many truly inspirational web sites are you aware of . I can name maybe four. How many groups have you encouraged or coerced into playing epic. My bet is very few. Pretty piss poor really isn't it for such a lot of whingers. We can't even be bothered to put in a minor effort to push our own hobby.

Rant over

Bob DeAngelis

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stormseer

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:28 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:52 pm
Posts: 4598
Location: Suffolk, UK.

Mmmm... too much whinging is bad, I heartily agree- however, even if every one of us forum members had created another Epic/BFG buyer or two from our associates (which I have done; I'd rather have someone to play than just whinge about GW...

?), even if this did happen, GW's money men would have still been unsatisfied I daresay- The sales of non-core games would never (for them) have 'justified' the investment they were making... -so we as players/buyers are hardly to blame Bob, a very harsh arguement....

I think Jervis is a top bloke for almost single-handidly saving the quality games SG now supports- Games like BFG, Mordheim and Warmaster can now happily move on with a more limited release schedule, as they have huge ranges of models available. Sure, he has made some not so good decisions (non core lists first etc...

On the other hand Epic needs core armies releasing, and is possibly in the worst situation following the cutbacks news, along with Necromunda, which, although it has a large range of models available, includes many old models, with only 4 gangs released so far with seperate hands, a rulebook full of the worst typos and ommisions ever in a GW ruleset, no online rulebook, and overpriced models *cough* spyrers *cough*

It is positive to hear that Jervis is looking into getting Nids and Chaos released in some form soon, so unbridled pessimisim is unjustified- we are not all doomed....

My 2p, ~Stormy

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vanvlak

Post subject: Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:13 am

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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
Posts: 10348
Location: Malta

Hi all,
not much to add, but I support Jervis too - I guess he's under bundles of pressure and still trying to run SGs as best as he can, with a genuine interest in SG players. He's not your run of the mill employee, but someone who believes in his work.
Re the non-core lists - I'm not sure: three core lists were issued in the 1st outing: IG, SM and Orcs, and these are all popular lists. I'd say the strategy was to try to issue a new race every 6 months-1 year, with non-core variations for already issued armies, pehaps trying to promote sales for the 1st out armies by producing variants, whilst helping out Epic players by issuing the army. I'd guess there were either sales-based or GW directive-based reasons for this, and if the core armies were issued at this rate, it might have worked. The provision of online test lists is not good enough, but it helps a lot, and says a lot for Jervis' support of players (how many other GW products beyond SGs have living rulebooks?) Now of course the whole thing is derailed, but I don't think Jervis should be blamed in any way. I'd be really worried if he were to leave GW. I know we've got netepic etc., but it's nice to have some support, even though it's possibly against the company trend.

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Could this be an Imperial Dropship?

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