Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

New to the game
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1470		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  4tonmantis [ Tue May 23, 2006 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Okay I've been playing 40k and WHFB as well as many other non-GW games for 5 or 6 years now.  I've always liked Epic and even Warmaster but now that I'm starting to get into Epic the rules are confusing me.  I've download the rules from the specialist website and read them through once and gone back through to try to piece it together.  The sequence of play seems easy enough  :8:  assuming that I can remember everything.  However when I started looking at building forces I couldn't figure it out.  Could someone simplify this for me?  I'm collecting orks so examples pertaining to them would be appreciated.  
Second, what scale (other than 6mm) can be used to identify the minis, as in model railroad, model kits (military), etc.  i'm thinking 1/144(ish) as 1/72 seems to be twice as big.  well, i'll be back :D
Author:  dafrca [ Tue May 23, 2006 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Hello 4tonmantis,

First welcome to the forum and to the Epic addiction. :D

Let me start with the easy answers. 6mm is very close to 1/300th or 1/285th stuff. So Z gage trains would be the closest.

Now for the Army questions:

The simple answer is that you are building armies of formations. Each formation may or may not have options or restriction placed on them from the overall list (like the number of flyer formations) or from internal restrictions (like the number of grots given per formation).

So to answer your basic question, you are building these formations (Mobs) one at a time until you reach your point total for the army.

As for special Ork related issues, some Mobs (formations) are allowed to be double or tripple sized and thus allow greater flexability in quantity of units within the mobs.

If you have specific questions, post them or if you want to drop an army list I am sure the Ork players will offer suggestions for adjustment etc.

dafrca
Author:  4tonmantis [ Tue May 23, 2006 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
okay that helps but leads to another question.  in the ork army list it gives three sizes but nothing really tells you how many units make up the formation.  ok...it probably does but in a language i don't yet speak :p
what are the differences in normal big and uge in what it allows and in gameplay? and what happens in the formation if different units have different movement rates?
Author:  Ilushia [ Tue May 23, 2006 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Quote (4tonmantis @ 23 May 2006 (21:56))
okay that helps but leads to another question. ?in the ork army list it gives three sizes but nothing really tells you how many units make up the formation. ?ok...it probably does but in a language i don't yet speak :p
what are the differences in normal big and uge in what it allows and in gameplay? and what happens in the formation if different units have different movement rates?

Over on the left side of the list, after the 'Type' listing you'll see a 'Core Units' listing. This is what the default makeup of the mob is. Take the Warband for instance. It's 'Core Units' listing is 'Two Nobz and Six Ork Boyz and two Gretchin'. This means that the starting numbers in that mob, before any upgrades are taken, will be 2 bases of Nobz, 6 bases of Boyz and 2 bases of Grotz. A Big formation will double those numbers to 4 bases of Nobz, 12 bases of Boyz and 4 bases of Grotz. And the 'Uge formation will raise it to 3x as much as the norm. So 6 Nobz, 18 Boyz and 6 Grotz.

The other effects of this is increasing the number of a specific unit you can take. Continuing with the Warband you can add 'Up to one Oddboy character for +50 points'. A Big mob, because it doubles in size, can add up to 2 of them. And a 'Uge mob up to 3 of them.

A formation moves as fast as it's slowest unit (barring them being inside transports). So a Warband with two Deth Koptas will move at 15cm, the speed of the infantry in the unit, because they're the slowest units in the formation. If you took a Battlewagon and put all the Orks on it, then the formation would move at 30cm, because the Battlewagon is transporting all the slower units in the formation.
Author:  4tonmantis [ Tue May 23, 2006 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
thanks guys that helps LOADS.  i figured it was a multiplier but couldn't find anything.  okay, next question is where would rules for Tau be found (it seems i'm going to have to collect 2 or more armies to get the enthusiasm up here).  haha this is going to be awesome!
Author:  Ilushia [ Tue May 23, 2006 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Quote (4tonmantis @ 23 May 2006 (22:19))
thanks guys that helps LOADS. ?i figured it was a multiplier but couldn't find anything. ?okay, next question is where would rules for Tau be found (it seems i'm going to have to collect 2 or more armies to get the enthusiasm up here). ?haha this is going to be awesome!

You can find the Tau V4.4 rules up on Specialist Games' website in the 'Experimental Rules' section. Most of the army-lists aren't 'official' in the sense that they've not been finalized and printed, but SG has a section dedicated to the development of those army lists via the Army Champion system, these boards being one of the input places the champions regularly use. The only army list I know of which isn't up to date in the Experimental Rules section is the Tyranids, who for some reason ahven't been updated there since v3.0 and are now up to v7.1 (which you can find in the Army Focus HQ section of this site).
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue May 23, 2006 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
If you have more Ork questions let me know, but more iimportantly if you have any observations or suggestions regarding things you find odd or out of balance or such I am compiling my list for the rules review.

Best place for the Tau rules is here on Epicomms in the .EA Tau section.  You can find not only the most recent posted version, courtesy of Cybershadow, but follow discussion and try out the latest proposed tweaks to see if they need to be included in future versions of the list.

We're nothing if not interactive. :D
Author:  dafrca [ Wed May 24, 2006 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  New to the game
I just knew others would also step in here. Great job Ilushia. :D

dafrca (Who was at work without any books etc.)
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed May 24, 2006 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Quote (Ilushia @ 23 May 2006 (22:04))
A formation moves as fast as it's slowest unit (barring them being inside transports). So a Warband with two Deth Koptas will move at 15cm, the speed of the infantry in the unit, because they're the slowest units in the formation. If you took a Battlewagon and put all the Orks on it, then the formation would move at 30cm, because the Battlewagon is transporting all the slower units in the formation.

Feel free to ask any further questions.

Just to clarify this point and avoid future misunderstanding... the actual speed of the Deth Koptas does not really change, and they are still able to move at the listed speed. However, all units within a formation must remain within (usually) 5cm of each other. Therefore, the Deth Koptas can move 35cm as normal, but must remain at least 5cm from another unit in the same formation... and this leads to the effect of the Deth Koptas actually moving less, and often the same speed as the infantry base.
Author:  Justiniel [ Wed May 24, 2006 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  New to the game
In terms of scale Epic is 'Heroic 6mm' so you will find some 6mm (1:300) stuff works, some will be too small all the way up to 10mm (1:144), some being perfect, some too large, good isn't it :laugh:
Author:  4tonmantis [ Wed May 24, 2006 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Quote (Justiniel @ 24 May 2006 (11:38))
In terms of scale Epic is 'Heroic 6mm' so you will find some 6mm (1:300) stuff works, some will be too small all the way up to 10mm (1:144), some being perfect, some too large, good isn't it :laugh:

thanks, i was afraid of that... 40k suffers the same problem...
I was looking at train stuff and it seems like N might be close or is Z really just an all around better fit?
Author:  Justiniel [ Thu May 25, 2006 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Generally speaking the larger an Epic model gets the smaller the scale :D The building/scenery scale is also on the smaller side so to keep it consistant Z scale is usually the better fit.
Author:  Ilushia [ Thu May 25, 2006 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Most of the infantry and vehicles are made to ~1/268th scale or so. Anything in the 1/250th-1/300th should work fine for these. The big units (Titans, Gargants and other such monstrous creations) are closer to 1/600th scale. For good reason, too. A Warlord made to 1/268th scale would stand roughly six inches tall and probably cost well over $70 per model! And I can only imagine how large an Emperor would be at that point  :8:
Author:  4tonmantis [ Thu May 25, 2006 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Quote (Ilushia @ 25 May 2006 (09:13))
Most of the infantry and vehicles are made to ~1/268th scale or so. Anything in the 1/250th-1/300th should work fine for these. The big units (Titans, Gargants and other such monstrous creations) are closer to 1/600th scale. For good reason, too. A Warlord made to 1/268th scale would stand roughly six inches tall and probably cost well over $70 per model! And I can only imagine how large an Emperor would be at that point ?:8:

see now that doesn't make sense to me as sentinels and wraithlords and what not cost less then titans... i know that it's a combination of materials vs game function but wtf... why aren't people converting dreadnoughts and such?  is the epic community really that removed from 40k?  Battlesuits, Dreads, Sentinels, Vehicles (especially the accessory sprues) landspeeders, etc all provide TONS of great bitz.  hmmm :devil:
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu May 25, 2006 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  New to the game
Those converters among us do use a fair number of 40K bits, but much of the detailing is out of scale.  A 40K dreadnought in the middle of a bunch of epic minis looks like a 40K dreadnought in the middle of a bunch of epic minis, not like a really big epic piece.
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