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Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
Yes I am. 87%  87%  [ 34 ]
No I'm not. 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Something else (expound below). 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 39

Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?

 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:13 am 
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2.1.1.3 Skimmers
Some units are noted as being skimmers. These units are equipped with devices that allow them to hover a short distance above the ground, so that they can fly over terrain that would slow other units down. Note that skimmers do not follow any of the rules for aircraft in section 4.0.

Skimmers may ignore dangerous or impassable terrain as they move. They may not end a move on impassable terrain, and if they end a move in dangerous terrain they must take a dangerous terrain test. Skimmers may also move over other friendly units as they move, but may not end a move on them. Enemy units and zones of control affect skimmers normally.

Skimmers may always choose to use their firefight value in an assault, even if there are enemy units in base contact with the skimmer. If they do this then the enemy unit must use their firefight value also. This represents the skimmer lifting off the ground out of reach of enemy ground units.

A skimmer may declare that it is popping up at the start of any action it takes, including when the skimmer goes into overwatch. Popping up is movement, which means a skimmer may not pop up and take a sustained fire action or fire on a hold action or a marshall action. Popping up counts as movement for the purposes of triggering enemy on overwatch. A skimmer that has popped up, ?pops down? at the conclusion of the action. Skimmers on overwatch do not pop down until after they make their overwatch attack. Skimmers with a transport capacity may not embark or disembark units while they are popped up, and if they are destroyed while they are popped up then any units on board will be destroyed with no save.

A skimmer that has popped up is assumed to be flying high enough that nearby intervening terrain, which is closer to the skimmer than the target unit, does not block the line of fire between these units. To check if the line of fire is blocked, simply measure the distanced between the skimmer and the terrain, and then measure the distance between the target unit and the terrain. If the skimmer is nearer to the intervening terrain than the target unit, then the line of fire is not blocked. If the skimmer is further from the intervening terrain then the line of fire is blocked normally (see diagram). If the distances to the terrain is equal, then the partially obstructed view means that both the skimmer and the target unit count as being in cover if they shoot at each other, and the cover to hit modifier will apply.


Diagram

Skimmer|----------------| |-----------------------|
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Target

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:51 am 
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I voted yes, but I'd like to see nid skimmer being able to engage other skimmers in CC


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 17 May 2006 (10:13))
A skimmer may declare that it is popping up at the start of any action it takes, including when the skimmer goes into overwatch. Popping up is movement, which means a skimmer may not pop up and take a sustained fire action or fire on a hold action or a marshall action.

If "popping up" is movement, why is the restriction on "no movement" for Overwatch waived, but not for Sustained Fire or Hold actions?

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:18 pm 
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I voted yes. I'd like to add the mild stipulation that units with Jump Packs and other Skimmers may still choose to fight the unit in melee. It wouldn't change a lot, but it'd allow certain units a better chance to beat off skimmers, which feels right to me.


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:03 pm 
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I voted yes, but to be honest Chris, who cares, This is one of those things that:

a) Were hashed to death more then once

and

b) The folks who are on each of the sides (or suggested solutions) will never behappy as long as their pet answer is not selected.

To be blunt, this is one of those subjects that I believe has been talked to death.

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:03 pm 
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Quote (Chroma @ 17 May 2006 (14:33))
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 17 May 2006 (10:13))
A skimmer may declare that it is popping up at the start of any action it takes, including when the skimmer goes into overwatch. Popping up is movement, which means a skimmer may not pop up and take a sustained fire action or fire on a hold action or a marshall action.

If "popping up" is movement, why is the restriction on "no movement" for Overwatch waived, but not for Sustained Fire or Hold actions?

Fluffwise, it's because on OW the unit is not just popping up, but taking the time to rise up, stabilize, and look for targets of opportunity.  Balance-wise the unit is a valid target for an extended period of time.  Neither of those is true of Sustained Fire, Hold, or Marshall actions.

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:06 pm 
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On the Skimmer CC issue, I think that is a bad idea.  The "skimmer dogfight" makes much more sense to me in most cases.  There are a few exceptions, like an Engine of Vaul, where a more maneuverable skimmer might be able to CC, but I'd rather exclude the small number of exceptions than allow all skimmers to CC.

And the chances of jump pack troops successfully using hand to hand combat against most skimmers is significantly less than  it would be for other skimmers.

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:54 am 
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Big problem with that for me is that with the exception of houses my terrain is pretty flat, I'm a step away from boardgaming most days :)
You do have to abstract it, though of course now we hit Dafcra's point :)

I do think the above rule is a good baseline for pick up games. For those with certain terrain conventions after all that effort with the woods etc you really should have a few different/special rules!

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:55 am 
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And I should say I am really surprised this rule is not official yet. I left Epic discussion boards when the old forum went down (and the mess obout skimmers was one of the reasons) and I returned now and see that absolutely nothing changed.


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:58 pm 
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Quote (Revenant @ 19 May 2006 (03:55))
And I should say I am really surprised this rule is not official yet. I left Epic discussion boards when the old forum went down (and the mess obout skimmers was one of the reasons) and I returned now and see that absolutely nothing changed.

Well, you have to understand that there's some seriously dedicated role-playing going on here. Not only do we like to play games set in the 41st millennium, we also like to develop rules in accordance with the vast time-scale in which the game is set.

Either that, or all the fluff about the slowly grinding bureaucracy of the Imperium is really just an autobiographical cry for help from the various designers.


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:13 pm 
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AFAIK the rule's not official mostly because there's not been an official revision of the core rules yet. I haven't heard anyone raise any serious arguments about it. I'd LIKE to see skimmers being able to melee with other skimmers (Especially the Tyranid skimmers being able to attack other skimmers) but this is by no means really needed. It's just in my 'it'd be nice' pile.


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:25 pm 
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Quote (Ilushia @ 19 May 2006 (15:13))
AFAIK the rule's not official mostly because there's not been an official revision of the core rules yet.

And I keep wondering WHEN this revision is going to happen, if ever. Not that I'm impatient (patience is a virtue for any Epic player), but still, it'd be nice to have something more precise than "when it's done" to go by...

Back on topic, I'm fairly satisfied with the proposed revision of the skimmer rules. I also don't think allowing some troops to CC against skimmers (even other skimmers) would be a good idea.


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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 2:05 am 
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Quote (Hojyn @ 19 May 2006 (14:25))
Quote (Ilushia @ 19 May 2006 (15:13))
AFAIK the rule's not official mostly because there's not been an official revision of the core rules yet.

And I keep wondering WHEN this revision is going to happen, if ever. Not that I'm impatient (patience is a virtue for any Epic player), but still, it'd be nice to have something more precise than "when it's done" to go by...

As do I - it keeps getting 'rescheduled'.

We were told it would be all over by Christmas... (where have I heard that before  :D ).

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 Post subject: Are you happy with the exp. Skimmers rule?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 4:06 am 
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Looks like the vote is going, for the most part, one sided. ???

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