Tactical Command
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Epic Scenario Supplement
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Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
This thread is what led to this idea:

Scenarios are IMO an often overlooked part of Epic: Armageddon and underappreciated at best.  The tournament games dominate play time.  When somebody has a unique or unusual idea they often feel compelled to put it into an army list and -from there- those ideas have a tendency to be ridiculed as being inappropriate for Epic.  Too detailed, too specific, too much like 40K, too cumbersome, etc.  In many cases these criticisms are correct and the ideas are not a good idea for tournament play.

With that said, there are a LOT of ideas that would be more than appropriate for scenarios.  The thread mentioned above is just one example where an Avatar could spend the entire game in play, or Wraithgates could be destroyed.  Space Marines and Epic 40000 had some wonderful ideas for scenarios but when E:A came around we were left with 'training scenarios'.  Clever work, but limited in its scope.

So here is my thinking: a supplement or compendium of scenarios could be put together.  I seem to recall others (Neal and Chroma come to mind) bringing this up in the past as well.  So, is anyone interested?  Ideas could include:

*General scenarios (non-army specific)
*Army-specific scenarios (good for armies that already exist in current supplements)
*Campaigns
*Alternative rules (such as free-for-alls or team play)
*Other

Big games.  Little games.  Big boards.  Small boards.  3-way battles.  4-person battles.  10000 point battles.  BFG-Epic cross overs.  Converting old Epic 40000 scenarios into E:A rules.  Unbalanced scenarios (where one player is either guaranteed to lose or has a very good chance of losing).  Adding characters or unique formations.  Sub-lists such as Harlequins (my list, Sotec's list, or both) might be better placed in this type of book, although I am not sure on this.

When I did Raiders, Hena and I drew up a bunch of scenarios and I can honestly say I didn't test a single one.  Since then I've had a chance to play a lot of them and enjoyed them all, but for an endeavor such as a scenario supplement it would be best to have some playtests done.  At least having each scenario tried once by a person who didn't write it and preferably more.

If you have any interest in this, write up a specific scenario (specific does not necessarily mean lengthy).  Post your ideas.  Try them out whenever possible.  Always take pictures and save them all.  Dress up your tables as nice as you can since these pictures might be used in a supplement one day.

I am not volunteering for leading this project just yet, although it intrigues me and I am willing if there is enough interest (read: other people helping).
Author:  blackhorizon [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Scenarios are cool. Although keeping them original, balanced and playable is what counts. Though when doing a narrative campaing, balanced & playable should be replaced by fun & fluffy. See: Project Distant Darkness.
Author:  Dave [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Definitely interested. I actually got the Epic 40k and 40k books so I could convert their scenarios over.

Also the guys I play with in MA what to do some kind of campaign, I'm throwing around some ideas for simple reinforcement and reforming rules with them. If they turn out alright I'd be willing to contribute them as well as some scenarios for node based campaigns.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Quote: (Moscovian @ 29 Dec. 2008, 14:54 )

This thread is what led to this idea:

Dang you people, snatching my ideas!  *laugh*

I've been doing some groundwork for "EPIC: Total War" in the background of my other projects.  This supplement is supposed to be a scenario/mission book, with new rules for general use for all armies and running campaigns, some army specific missions, etc.  I've been going over the Epic: 40k Battles Book, older WH40k Missions, and communicating with some of the people who made EPIC:A missions for Fanatic Magazine.  

I've been keeping it fairly quiet as I didn't want the distraction from finishing "Black Crusade" and firming up the Tyranids, but now the cat is out of the bag!  *laugh*
Author:  old_gamer [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
I love the idea.

Would this extend as far as 'special' weapons for scenario play? (All the SM2 weapons which were removed because they need individual special rules and are impossible to balance for tournament play)

For example, a city under attack by an ork horde which is unusually well supplied with mekboys - giving them access to shokk attack gunz, pulsa rokkits and lifta droppas. The orks have some extra toys (maybe as upgrades to big gunz) and the defenders have static defences: turrets, trenches, bunkers, etc... (minefields?)
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
I think it's a great idea. Being an avid fan of Avalon Hill games like Panzerblitz and Squad Leader and an Adeptus Titanicus veteran, I'm used to playing scenarios and campaigns. They give extra flavor to a game.
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Old Gamer,

Your scenario.  Your idea.  Give it a shot!  If you look through the Raiders supplement (see my sig) you'll find a scenario toward the back that gave the Necron Deceiver the chance to repair the Aeonic Orb in the scenario.  A VERY powerful ability as Studdering_Dave encountered but it was specific for that game.  

Of course, whoever ends up editing this book would have to make some careful choices as to what to include and not include.  That's where playtesting and feedback comes in, but your idea sounds great if its done right.

Chroma,

If we waited on you and all your ideas to come to fruition, the sun would swallow us up and the galaxy would burn itself out.  :tongue:   There is no reason why we can't get multiple projects going on.  In fact, in this case it is a great idea.  Somebody might come up with a scenario idea that fits better in Black Crusades or Xenos than a stand alone scenario book.

Black Crusades though IMO is the monster in the box.  It is going to take a dedicated editor (a.k.a. you) and a lot of support.  It will also be the supplement that is most read, purchased, played, playtested, and criticized if anything falls through the cracks.  It's gonna be like shavin' a bobcat's @ss in a phonebooth so you better get the whetstone ready. :cool:
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
When we were playing regularly, we probably did 50% scenarios.  We played a campaign based on the Armageddon background, a campaign based on the Swordwind background and a tree campaign based on a Chaos crusade to name a few.  If the scenarios were tested and fun (note: neither of those require them to be "balanced" in the traditional sense), then I would definitely be interested.
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Correct, balance is not a requirement - although it should be noted that the scenario is unbalanced in some way.  Heck, you can even right it into the scenario by mentioning (for example) the defender 'wins' if he isn't slaughtered by turn 4.  

Neal, all of those scenarios sound really cool and I may have to harrass you into posting some info on them.   :;):   The Chaos one sounds better suited for Black Crusades, but regardless I think we'd all benefit if you could possibly put something together... Since you have nothing else to do.  HEEE HEE!
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Quote: (Moscovian @ 29 Dec. 2008, 11:50 )

Correct, balance is not a requirement - although it should be noted that the scenario is unbalanced in some way.

Actually, it should be balanced, but it might be that only the victory requirements are balanced, meaning each player has a more-or-less equal chance of winning the scenario.
Author:  konate [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
No, they don't need to be balanced!  The most fun I've had playing was when you knew you didn't have a chance to "win" but victory was measured by some other yardstick dictated by the scenario.  Those are more "story-driven" and IMO much more interesting than a standard game anyway.

I am new to this game, but very, very old to the hobby.  I don't have access to the older SM stuff, but I'm sure there are some cool scenarios that can be lifted from other games out there.  

Many suppliments for other GW games could seed inspiration as well.  I know the "Skirmish" book (on the GW website as a pdf) has loads of "off-rules" scenarios (like old_gamer requested) that could lead to interesting ideas.  Even 40k has been using a few rules like that in some of their Apocalypse games in the Apocalypse suppliments.  BFG has some really well devised scenarios (best I've seen) that could lead to some similar scenarios or "off-rules" ideas.  The thought of combining games (40k and Epic, BFG and Epic, Epic and Blood Bowl?) could lead to some neat ideas as well (a la "BFG INVASION" suppliment)

Just ask people what they would like to do.  My friend likes tanks.  I was making terrain (having none, being new) and I asked my friend what he would like to see (not being new), and he came up with a list of terrain he wanted to fullfill a scenario he would like to play where an IG tank company got ambushed in a ravine by the Eldar. As an old gamer myself, my scenario-experienced mind started racing and voi-la!  I've played 2 games and am working on a scenario already!

Not sure how much time I, personally, can allocate to supporting this until summer.  I am an educator pursuing a graduate degree (we all know, "the gamer's blues").  I may be able to pound out a few ideas but they will not be too timely.  Speaking of which, back to writing my literature review.   :oo:  :sigh:
Author:  Warhead [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Actually, it should be balanced, but it might be that only the victory requirements are balanced, meaning each player has a more-or-less equal chance of winning the scenario.
I think DS is right IMO. It's what I always try to do for our NetEpic Campaigns (along with lots of fun + fluff) but it is the trickiest thing (I find) to get balanced without having some trial games and even then... Good luck with this very interesting Project.  :agree:
Author:  Irisado [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
It's a really good idea, and one that I would have liked to contribute to in terms of playtesting, but due to spending most of my time in an all in one studio in Nottingham studying my MA, I sadly just don't have the time or space necessary. (I haven't even managed to get my next game of Epic in at home this Christmas, as I've spent most of the holiday studying, and now that I've finished my current assignment I've got a cold, so I don't feel well enough to play).

That said, I do have a wealth of old books and White Dwarfs from the Space Marine era, so I would be happy to come up with some ideas which other players could then turn into scenarios, so I could make contributions in that way if this would be desired.
Author:  vytzka [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
That's a splendid idea, I'm definitely getting a book if it gets printed :wow:

As for scenarios I'll try to do my best. Time and attention span permitting I'm going to try and recreate the Jadeberry Hill battle scenario. Just don't expect great pictures from me as we are barely getting our models into shape now.
Author:  Carrington [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Epic Scenario Supplement
Just as a note... Vassal could be an extremely useful tool in balancing scenarios, being 'table-independent' and playable over thousands of miles.
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