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Rules Questions assault

 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Can models contacted in close combat pivote on the spot, specifically in this case to allow other models to move past them?

And how many enemy units can a non war engine charge. Must it be just one or can it be more than one?

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Not being an EA player yet let alone an expert however I feel I would be just a bit annoyed if an opponent began shifting units around that I had taken the trouble to pin in close combat just so they can maximize their ZOC or squeeze another model past. I don't think that kind of thing is in the spirit of the game to be honest. I will be surprised/dismayed if you are told it's allowed..

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:21 pm 
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Bit of a strange answer, but it depends on who you are playing.

Once a model/stand is contacted in an engagement then it is effectively pinned. I have played both with and against letting the unit swivel into a second unit, but never have I thought to swivel away to allow passage through for a trapped unit.

Personally I think that I would grumble if someone tried that against me. If they wanted to hide a unit behind another the formation should be set up so that they can pass through pre-existing spaces.

A War Engine can have up to twice its DC of units in BtB contact before it is prevented from moving and can continue charging until it reaches this point.

An interesting further point is if the War Engine has been charged and contacted in BtB can it counter-charge as it can't get any closer to the enemy?

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:29 pm 
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So once contacted pinned no movement.

What about the second point? How many enemy units can a non war engine charge. Must it be just one or can it be more than one?

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:34 pm 
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I would have thought one for one but I see where your coming from. Even predators (The animals not the tanks, jeesh) can only focus on one target at a time or risk losing them all.

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:49 pm 
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Can models contacted in close combat pivot on the spot, specifically in this case to allow other models to move past them?


No but trapped units could move through friendly Infantry units or over bases(not models)if they follow the counter charge rules and there is room for them to move to.
1.7.2 Other Units
Enemy units may never move over or through each other.
With the exception of infantry, a friendly unit may never
move directly over another friendly unit. You can move
over infantry units with other units, as the stationary
infantry are assumed to get out of the way. Note that
‘moving over’ refers to the model itself, not the unit’s
base.

And how many enemy units can a non war engine charge. Must it be just one or can it be more than one?
If you can maneuver the attacking unit so it is exactly the same distance away from 2 enemy units before you enter their ZoC then it is possible as you only have to move directly towards the enemy once you enter their ZoC.

An interesting further point is if the War Engine has been charged and contacted in BtB can it counter-charge as it can't get any closer to the enemy?
So long as the War Engine isn't pinned in place(by another WE or 2x it's DC of normal units) then it can counter-charge to the next available enemy unit (doesn't have to belong to the same formation).

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:40 pm 
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And what of the 'dreaded' Chaos Feral Warhound that has been successfully engaged in the rear. Can it use it's countercharge to pivot to face its attackers (thereby gaining the extra attacks for its battlehead)????

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:42 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ 26 Nov. 2008, 17:03 )

Well in theory if you enter into two units ZoC at the same time and they are equal distance away and moving towards one moves you to another, you can contact both targets. In practice that's about impossible as there is slight difference in distance.

However if you have Infiltrate, you can contact two units if your base can be put to contact both.

In theory surely not?

The rules state (my bold added).
Units making a charge move are allowed to enter enemy
zones of control in order to move into base contact with
an enemy unit from the target formation.


Not may contact two if you move into two ZoC or use infiltrate to contact two. Indeed infiltrate just says you may ignore enemy ZoC's, nothing abut two bases.

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:24 am 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 26 Nov. 2008, 15:46 )

Can models contacted in close combat pivote on the spot, specifically in this case to allow other models to move past them?

And how many enemy units can a non war engine charge. Must it be just one or can it be more than one?

Not quite sure I understand - how could a defending model contacted in an assault pivot, the only move a defending unit can make while an assault is happening is a counter charge which it can only make if it has not been contacted by an enemy unit, if a defending unit or war engine for that matter has been contacted by an enemy unit it may not make a counter charge and so may not move in any way.

In my experience most people play you can contact up to 2 units almost without thinking, personally dont have a problem with one for one or one for two.

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:01 am 
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My take:

Pivoting: I use square or round bases mostly. :p
Seriously,


1.12.4 Counter Charges
...
Defending units that are not already in base contact with
an enemy unit are allowed to counter charge.
...
(2nd paragraph)

prevents contacted units from making a countercharge in the first place, hence no pivoting!


You can contact 2 enemy units if you enter their ZoCs simultaneously, and generosity rules in 6mm, so if there are a couple of spare move cms involved I´d assume the charging unit maneuvered to do so if the attacker desired this without forcing him to name the exact spot and start measuring nanometers from there.

Barging WE can of course turn and change their facing in a countercharge unless pinned by 2xDC, when they can´t move at all.




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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:18 pm 
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IIRC the answer to the second part of your question is '1'.

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:28 pm 
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No movement once contacted except for WE barges.

The multiple-contact answer given on the boards for several years was exactly what Hena stated - the ZoC/charge rule determines who may contact whom.  The ZoC/charge rule says once you enter it you must proceed to base contact with that unit, so if you can enter two of them simultaneously you could feasibly charge both units.  In fact, I would say that you are required to charge them both at that point.  In practice, a dual-charge is rarely possible (or just ineffective) except for Infiltrators due to restrictions on movement and model placement.

I realize it says "an" enemy, but like much of the rules it is written based on an assumed typical situation and I don't think that the grammatical use of the singular article is intended to be a restriction.

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 Post subject: Rules Questions assault
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 01 Dec. 2008, 16:28 )

No movement once contacted except for WE barges.

[SNIP]

I realize it says "an" enemy, but like much of the rules it is written based on an assumed typical situation and I don't think that the grammatical use of the singular article is intended to be a restriction.

So by this are you saying that WE may use their countercharge "Barge" to pivot provided they have not been pinned by double their DC?

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