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Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)

 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Yes, I neglected to mention that also ... you should wear a painter's mask if you are going to do a lot of sanding of F/W resin ...   Now there are resins that are less toxic or non-toxic(IIRC), but I don't know the total facts about all the different types of resin ...

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:31 am 
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Well I bought a heap of the FW Epic buildings and they were ok. My crew has had mixed experiences with the other stuff. AI planes are generally good, some of the imperial vehicles have not been so good. One of my friends liked  the Ork vehicles - some fragile bits had smashed off in freight but their orks so who cares right?   ???

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:16 am 
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On the Forgeworld issue, Legion 4 has explained to me exactly why I won't buy anything from them.  It's far to fiddly to put together, its brittle nature, means that it can be damaged in transit, having to wash it is just really unhelpful, and to top it all, if you ever have to file anything the little resin fibres are actually hazardous if your breathe them in, so all in all it is to be avoided in my book.
Too fiddly to put together? Even more fiddly than say...painting 6mm models? :rock: Models damaged in transit can be returned for a refund or exchange. Washing: Well I always wash my minis, even the plastic and metal ones to remove mold release agents and any extra material that I have sanded off the models while cleaning them. I know resin is brittle, but warm soapy water and a soft toothbrush shouldn't damage anything.  :no:

Resin has always been dangerous if you sand it. It's not just the Epic scale resin that's toxic.

All these are good reasons why any new Epic products should not be cast in resin.  If they were to be cast in resin, I feel that Epic would end up being even more of a niche game than it currently appears to be.

More of a niche game than it already is?   :oh: I just don't understand this. SG doesn't even have armies for most of the Epic line and it doesn't appear that they will ever. If ForgeWorld took over model production and made an exception with the infantry by producing them in metal we would have A:Models that are cheaper by far than SG. B:Models that are superior in detail than their SG counterparts. C:Books that don't go out of print after one print run. If FW were running the show for Epic we might just get NEW models for our armies every now and then. Could you imagine it? Updatd model ranges every few years? Sounds a lot nicer than what we have going on right now.

-Malakai




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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 17 Nov. 2008, 04:39 )

I would like for FW to take over, if

1) They don't take over rules writing for it. As I don't think they have enough epic playing people to write proper rules.
2) They can do the infantry in plastic / metal. The resin infantry is just too fragile.

If they would publish lists that were worked on by you guys then it would be nice. I really do love FW books. I have the AI book and it's very well done. It would be nice to actually play an AI game one day!  :vD  

-Malakai




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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Quote: (Irisado @ 16 Nov. 2008, 21:45 )

On the Forgeworld issue, Legion 4 has explained to me exactly why I won't buy anything from them.  It's far to fiddly to put together, its brittle nature, means that it can be damaged in transit, having to wash it is just really unhelpful, and to top it all, if you ever have to file anything the little resin fibres are actually hazardous if your breathe them in, so all in all it is to be avoided in my book.

...all of which pales into insignificance compared to the two major upsides - stunningly high detail and actually getting new models...

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Well Boyz sounds like a lot of wishful thinking ... But that's O.K. ... I'm still hoping for O/C 6mm Slammer AFVs ... :)  But I don't think F/W will ever do stuff in metal. And they probably would not make new Epic models, even though you can still get the older Epic Models. Just like with G/W-S/G Epic:A The only 6mm they have been producing is for AI which are Epic by any other name. And they have not done anything lately for the AI, but who knows ?!  Again I have everything F/W has produced for Epic/AI (AFVs, Infantry, Aircraft, terrain)so far. And will probably buy anything new if released ... But since G/W-S/G isn't really supporting Epic ... I don't think F/W will be making anything specifically for Epic, but maybe a few odds & ends for AI ... maybe ?!  So time will tell ... But I'm betting I'll have 6mm Slammers AFVs before we see anything new for Epic ... As Jez from Old Crow said he's working on them and should see some in the next few months.  I really have not heard anything from G/W-S/G-F/W that has mentioned new Epic or even AI for that matter ...  But who knows ?!  :D

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:21 pm 
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I thought they came out L4. Try asking on TMP for them? (6mm hammers that is.)

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:57 pm 
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Not yet, AFAIK, but I've been in contact directly, with both Jez from O/C and Treadaway who co-wrote the Handbooks/Rules ... It was discussed on TMP months ago ... but no release date mentioned. However, based on Jez ... They may be out in Dec.-Jan. ...  So I'm hoping for a Slammer Christmas !! :laugh:  And BTW ... my (future)6mm Slammers will kick any G/W-F/W Epic Armies' Butt(and I got all the G/W-F/W armies including Squats & Tau !!!!)!!!  :O  And Slammer fluff IMO is cooler than G/W fluff ! :tongue:

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:22 am 
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Quote: (Malakai @ 17 Nov. 2008, 10:16 )

Too fiddly to put together? Even more fiddly than say...painting 6mm models? :rock: Models damaged in transit can be returned for a refund or exchange. Washing: Well I always wash my minis, even the plastic and metal ones to remove mold release agents and any extra material that I have sanded off the models while cleaning them. I know resin is brittle, but warm soapy water and a soft toothbrush shouldn't damage anything.  :no:

Resin has always been dangerous if you sand it. It's not just the Epic scale resin that's toxic.

[quote]All these are good reasons why any new Epic products should not be cast in resin.  If they were to be cast in resin, I feel that Epic would end up being even more of a niche game than it currently appears to be.


More of a niche game than it already is?   :oh: I just don't understand this. SG doesn't even have armies for most of the Epic line and it doesn't appear that they will ever. If ForgeWorld took over model production and made an exception with the infantry by producing them in metal we would have A:Models that are cheaper by far than SG. B:Models that are superior in detail than their SG counterparts. C:Books that don't go out of print after one print run. If FW were running the show for Epic we might just get NEW models for our armies every now and then. Could you imagine it? Updatd model ranges every few years? Sounds a lot nicer than what we have going on right now.

-Malakai

Painting 6mm models is easy in my opinion.  I'm a lousy painter, and the stands of Eldar Aspect Warriors I painted years ago are the easiest models I've painted in my life.  It's some of the larger models that are much more difficult in my view.

You have a lot more patience that me if you are willing to wash your models!  :;):

I agree that all resin is toxic, which is really why I question the wisdom of using it in the first place.  I would rather pay more for metal or plastic (as they are still cheaper in relative terms than buying metal and plastic 40K models) than have a price cut in exchange for the models being made in resin.

As far as the niche comment goes, I was referring to the fact that I believe that more people still buy GW products than Foregeworld products, ergo transferring the production of Epic to Forgeworld exclusively may well be a disincentive for people who don't want to go outside the GW system, or haven't heard of Forgeworld.  Now, I could be completely mistaken, but I have my doubts that Forgeworld products constitute a main stream part of the wargaming market.  Basically it boils down to this, if Forgeworld were to get the licence, would players be prepared to buy entire armies in resin?  I'm not sure that they would, in view of all the problems associated with it.

It doesn't really matter what GW to decide to do though, I still feel that Epic is regrettably forever cast into a subsidiary role.

Zombocom:  I don't think it does pale into insignificance.  As detailed as the models may be, if they arrive in a ruined state, are hazardous if you file or sand them, and are very brittle and easily damaged, I think that's far more significant than having a high level of detail, but if you like them, fair enough, each to their own.

Anyway, it's all pie in the sky, as I don't believe it will happen.  I think we will get a result if GW manages to reinstate all the old Epic material on the specialist games pages, let alone anything else.  I don't like to sound pessimistic, but I think that is more or less where Epic stands in the grand scheme of things.  Jervis may well like to update a few things, but he isn't the man with the final say, and this is the fundamental problem for Epic, it's out favour with the powers that be.

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:34 pm 
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I look at it like this. If I wanted to play Epic Necrons and my choices were to buy a resin army from FW or convert them myself from plasticard and proxy infantry I would most definitely buy from FW.

-Malakai

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Quote: (Malakai @ 20 Nov. 2008, 19:34 )

I look at it like this. If I wanted to play Epic Necrons and my choices were to buy a resin army from FW or convert them myself from plasticard and proxy infantry I would most definitely buy from FW.

-Malakai

That's fair enough.  I'm certainly not going to say that Forgeworld is inappropriate for everyone, and if you don't mind working with the resin, then I feel that it will bring you dividends, as I don't see GW making new figures any time soon, so Forgeworld are the only company likely to release any new figures.

My position is simply that this really ought not to be the case, and it would be better if GW produced the figures in metal or plastic, but in spite of any suggestions to the contrary from Jervis, I don't believe that this will happen sadly.

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:40 pm 
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in spite of any suggestions to the contrary from Jervis, I don't believe that this will happen sadly.


I do believe this will happen.

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 20 Nov. 2008, 21:40 )

in spite of any suggestions to the contrary from Jervis, I don't believe that this will happen sadly.


I do believe this will happen.

Let's hope you're right!!

:cool:

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 Post subject: Jervis Seminar at GT Heat 2 (stolen from Warseer)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:14 am 
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Whilst I can't deny that FW are very good at replacing items it does mean you wait ages for the models. In my experience about 50% of FW are miscast and generally take a month(+) to arrive. Then you have to ring to get replacements (as apparently answering emails is impossible) and wait another month(+). If you only have certain times when you can plan painting for or deadlines that armies need to be ready for then FW is a waste of time.

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