Tactical Command
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2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1346		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Xavi [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Hi all,

I was lookin again at the E:A rules when I noticed something that is rather obvious if you pay attention: if a unit loses part of its transports, it moves way less. Yeah, I am that smart. :)

What concerned me about this is that transports are in general very vulnerable to enemy fire. Usually they are armoured vehicles (well, I think they are _always_ so) but killing one or 2 of them should be quite easy for any enemy. AT units with a long range like leman russes are quite common and they can leave your mechanized formation laying without the optimum number of transports easily.

Having said that, for a regular IG formation you pay 150 points for the transports. I have started wondering if those points wouldn't be better used somewhere, then :L Getting a fire support platoon and a hydra for the cost of a basic mechanized formation might seem like an option, don't you think?

I would like to know if the reduction of mobility because of dead transports is something that you have noticed to hamper your plan a lot or if I am dreading smoke here. Thank you very much :)

Regards,

Xavi
Author:  iblisdrax [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Well, unless you are playing on a mostly flat battlefield with no terrain features, you can usually mask your mech formations in that manner.  Except against artillery, and there isnt much you can do about that, except spread out. I havent had too many issues with formations slowed down critically because of transport loss.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Also you can opt to leave the transportless units behind. They will be automatically destroyed and place a blast marker on their parent formation so it is noot recomended. However there may be times when such a sacrifice is nesecary (like taking an objective in order to score vital victory points that turn)

Cheers!:)
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Advance APCs/IFVs behind a covered and concealed position, then dismount troops.  Lay down suppressive fire with the tracks' weapons.  Advance infantry under cover ...  :;):
Author:  Serps [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
That works, L4.

Of course, I just add some snipers, and add 2 Chimeras to the formation instead of 1. That way, I have some spare transport capability in case one of the lead chimeras pop.
Author:  Kaptain O [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
also, if a transport is blown up dont the infantry inside have to make a save (which guard dont have) or die - hence there would be no one left on foot to slow down the column.

....note i dont actually now how to play this game i just read the rules once or twice!!
Author:  Xavi [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
IBLISDRAX
Yup, cover, of course. The thing is that once you get up in the open to shot yourself at the enemy, the enemy ca decide to shot back ;) And here problems arise: it seems that if you lose transports in this process your unit is no longer mobile. It has effectively become an infantry formation. So, from my POV it would seem that it is a one-shot ability: you move 60-90 cm, position yourself and then you become an infantry formation when your transports beguin to die.

WMN
True. Nothing to add here. The problem is in case you lose more than one or 2 transports here.

L4
Great for real world tactics, but for E:A you must keep a 5 cm coherency with your transports. If you make it bigger the transports "die" and the formation gets a BM. Sad but true.

SERPS
This is stated as being illegal in the rules for army selection. At last for the IG ones: you cannot take more chimeras than what is needed to transport your formations.

KAPTAIN O
Well, the idea is to move and then dismount, not to remain inside the transport to be shot down while you are inside it! :D



In general, for what I am reading it looks like it is a one shot process: you can move up to 90, and then your movement is restricted to that of infantry. Well, it is ok, and in a lot of cases it can come handy to have this advantage over regular infantry (that moves 45 cm at most) but you cannot count on having the transport capacity after the first. Worth 150 points? For one company, likely. For all your infantry formations no way.

Xavi
Author:  dafrca [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Xavi,

What I have found is that the firepower and transport speed even it is only used in the first two turns is well worth the added cost. Of course my use for the mech infantry is based around getting troops to the objective as soon as I can.

dafrca
Author:  Cuban Commissar [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
I have 3 Mechcanized companies.

Are they worth it.  Every bit.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Once Troops dismount in our system, the tracks become a separate unit.  We've always done it that way since SM1, and I incorporated activation since then ('90).  If a rule is unrealistic we change it.  I know how infantry works ... :;): Or should ... :D
Author:  dafrca [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Sep.,19:53)
Once Troops dismount in our system, the tracks become a separate unit. ?

I do not like this idea for EA. It is a cheep way of getting extra activations. I would keep it as it is, the tracks stay as part of the formation. But that is just me.  :laugh:

dafrca
Author:  Xavi [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Ok, 2 things:

1) I just reread the rules and I was wrong and Serps was right: you can take up to one transport per UNIT in the formation maximum, so his extra transport capacity is a sound move towards keeping the formation mobil. Good one man

2) I agree with L4 and Dafrca at the same time. I think that it is a cheap way to get activations as well, bnut OTOH I think I would use it! It is much more realistic. And well, they are not *that* cheap in any case. You are paying 150 points minimum for a poo formation of 7 chimeras.

It seems that most people agree that even if you might lose the capacity, the extra mobility is more than worthwile. Actually I was NOT questioning that. Sorry if I have been unclear :) What I was questioning was the need of having *all* units mechanized. It seems to me that as a spearhead it is good to have ONE of those for every 3000 points or so in your army, but that more than one mechanized formation is overkill and you'd be better taking a regular infantry company supported by a 150 points support formation instead. That was my point. One= good. More than one= overkill and not necessarily good since you invest points in transport capacity that are not really needed or useful.

Regards,

Xavi
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
Yes but then again your Guard infantry doesn't have much long range weaponry so it may easily be a couple of turns before theey are even within range of the enemy. Also it will be much longer before they are able to capture an objective and dig in. It really depends on your style of play. Footslogging IG easily become orks with worse CC abilities.

Though the Chimera may not be a battletank in terms of fireppower it is still a fairly capable transport veichle. Also remember that IG have no armour so the transport's 5+ save is more than welcome when your slow infantry is facing artillery barrages. Vulnerable to AT yes. But rather that than smashed into a pulp by the artillery which is allways more effective against "softer targets".

Depending on what type of enemy you will be facing their efficiency may vary but personally I'd take a Mechanized formation over foootsloggers anytime if I have the points.
Maybe future IG lists like the Cadians will have larger infantry companies capable of soaking up more damage which could be an advantage.

Cheers!:)
Author:  iblisdrax [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
I havent come across many situations where I desperately needed more transport (cause some had been destroyed) to move my formation quickly.  But, that may be because I generally move my mech formations to the objectives, or preferably cover near the objective, and dismount them, and that is the way they stay.  There just arent too many situations for the Guard to do quick mount-dismount-mount maneuvers, that is best left for the Space Marines and Eldar.

But thats just me.

:D

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  2000 point imperial gaurd any comments?
To be honest, if your transported formation isbeing shot at before they have got where they are going, you have not planed well enough. Once the fighting starts, your troops should be in the open air, to make maximum use of cover and firepower.

I would rule against the transports being a seperate unit, but perhaps allowing them to detach and just hold ground on defensive orders only?

However, the only place that I would make transports seperate is in the case of Stormtroopers. Just the thought of the aircraft having to hover to stay within range of the troops seems surreal!
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