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Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas
vanvlak	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	And modern 40K fluff permits Drop-Dredds..... _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?
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Tiny-Tim	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:13 pm
Hybrid Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm Posts: 4893 Location: North Yorkshire	Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) (1) In General Too Weak in Assaults (2) Vindicator Not Worth It (A) Increase it's speed to 25cm © Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover (3) Too Weak Against WE (B) Live with it every army should have weaknesses Jaldon Are Marines weak in assault? Whenever my regular opponent gets an engagment going I really suffer, but if I do it on my terms then he suffers. Vindicator - Increase in speed almost universally agreed & ignore cover, no problems from me there. Can't deal with WE? Well there are termies, and you can have your own WEs so whats the problem. Now for the disclaimer. I don't play Marines. I find them too difficult to play with, but I am prepared to look for solutions and try and test new ideas. A problem that has been raised is that a single shot can cripple the movement of a formation by destroying one of its transports. Now Marines can still double and March which can cover a lot of ground. I originally had a possible solution of increasing the save for Rhinos and Razorbacks, but discussing this with Nick (Mekboy) Simmerson, Speed Freak Champion and general brilliant player he came up with a better solution. Similar to IG and their Commissars, Marines have Techmarines. Before a battle the Marine player rolls a D3+1 for techmarines (assuming upto 3000pts). He does not have to allocate these, but must have a suitable marking system to show that he has them. Then during the game these techmarines may be used to allow the player to re-roll a failed armour save on a vehicle. Note a save can only be re-rolled once and if the vehicle has already used a re-roll for say Reinforced Armour, he can't re-roll a re-roll. However if the same vehicle is hit by a MW then the first save is lost, the second save can be taken and if this is failed then a techmarine may be used. Of course TK weapons would not be affected by this rule. Well I'm open for comments and if there is a bit that doesn't make sense then I'll try to clarify it. Tim _________________ _________________ www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
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Tas	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:28 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am Posts: 7823 Location: Sydney, NSW	I like the Tech-Marine: After all, it worked well in SM2! Would that also herald the return of the Medic with personnel saves? When I pushed this in the initial EA playest forum (lets see, thats 3 offiial forums ago now..) I was told it was too complex?  has this officla attitud echanged to allow more character diversity? _________________ Tas My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/ My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/ My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:48 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11143 Location: Canton, CT, USA	I, too, like the ideas of Tech-Marines and Medics. As for the Vindy, it should have the Ignore Cover ability. Dreads- let them be able to be deployed by drop pod. Also, am I the only one that would like to see them as seperate formations, instead of just upgrades? _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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nealhunt	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:02 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I think the marines are pretty close to being okay and only need some minor tweaks.  Here are the items I have advocated to the Rules Committee: Vindicator - up the speed to 25cm All armor formations (except Whirlwinds) - drop 25 points to 275 points/375 for LRs TSKNF changes: Leaders remove 2 BMs Drop the outnumber mod by 1, i.e. outnumbered is +0, outnumbered more than double is -1. _________________ Neal
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gary_clark1946	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:53 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:40 am Posts: 280 Location: Dominican Republic	It has been a while since I jumped in on this but... I am still of the mind that Tech-marines and medics don't need to be complicated to be in the game. The "Leadership" ability alone works well. ... sorry but I don't want to hear the "They aren't leaders!" argument. It is the effect not what you call it. The point is that you get a reasonable solution with out adding any new rules (except maybe expanding their Invulnerable Save to include some number of units in the detachment.) In any fluff I can remember SM's could care less about beinging outnumbered, period. end of rant _________________ Wolf1
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-AL	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:28 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:02 am Posts: 109	Good point.  Fluss-wise, if Marines aren't outnumbered, then the Emperors resources are being waisted. _________________ Note to self:  add clever signature
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Jaldon	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:26 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.	Quote Warmaster Nice Dreadnoughts. There's been some suggestions about letting them use Drop Pods for increased mobility. End Quote *Jaldon looks left then right* pssssst Dreadnoughts can use drop pods, and Thunderhawks, and Landing Craft already. Jaldon _________________ Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
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Tiny-Tim	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:21 am
Hybrid Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm Posts: 4893 Location: North Yorkshire	On the WPS Epic Rules Committee, yes I know I should go outside once in a while, it has been suggested to bring in a whole command stand. This would use the techmarine rule above, a similar version for the apothic##$$## Medic and also a Standard Bearer to allow for limited reduction of BM. The idea is to reduce the Supr Com to +75pts and havethis additional up-grade at + a further 50pts. I agree that ome of the existing rules could be used further. ie Inv Sv, but is a bit of a throw away save and not a bonus to be used when really needed. Tim _________________ _________________ www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
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The_Ape	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:44 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:30 pm Posts: 20	I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give. Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair
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Markconz	Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:15 pm
Purestrain Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm Posts: 7925 Location: New Zealand	Quote (The_Ape @ 02 2005 Aug.,12:44) I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give. Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair That is basically just giving them the reinforced armour ability... which I don't think they deserve. An invulnerable save maybe... to represent the ease of repair etc of rhinos (not razorbacks which are already good value in epic, and also don't have the easy repair ability in 40k). _________________ http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
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netepic

Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm Posts: 7016 Location: Southfields, London, England

Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) (1) In General Too Weak in Assaults (Fix) Change outnumber result to the following (A) If outnumbered by 2 to 1, or more then enemy gets +1 (B) If Even or just outnumbered enemy gets +0 ? If Marines outnumber enemy they get +2 Sounds groovy (2) Vindicator Not Worth It (A) Increase it's speed to 25cm (B) Give it FF+1 attacks ? Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover OR (D) Decrease it's Detachment cost to 200pts, and per unit cost to 50pts

Decrease cost - it has to preserve the link to 40k for the studio to accept it.


(3) Too Weak Against WE
(A) Make Hunter MW4+TKD3 AA4+
(B) Live with it every army should have weaknesses


Live with it

Other things to consider:

Armour is too expensive - especially the Land Raiders. I never field them any more :S.