| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
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| First impressions... http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13028 |
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| Author: | levinas [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Having just played my first game of Epic in years I thought I'd post a few first impressions and ask a couple of questions of you veteran players. So, first impressions... Well, it's good fun and looks to have massive tactical potential (which we failed to tap into last night). It isn't as quick as I'd expected (although that was partly due to a lack of rules knowledge). Things move very quickly which was a nice surprise as it meant the game was 'ON' from turn one. It also meant that playing on a small table wasn't a good idea as there wasn't enough room to keep far enough away from enemy units and any objectives were too hard to claim - basically it forced us into a kill everything type game and minimised tactical movement. Combat is very 'decisive' (coming from a WH perspective). Characters seemed rather vulnerable if we played hit allocation right. Oh, and Leman Russ tanks are very very nasty! So, a couple of questions. How do you lot allocate hits and roll saves? It seems that you're meant to do it individually rather than rolling a bunch of dice? Is that right? It vertainly makes a difference to subsequent actions and can lead to character stands dying if they have to roll to save individually rather than being allowed to allocate failed saves 'collectively'. Did we get this right? And a more 'tactical' questiion. Are there any popular approaches to winning beyond killing stuff? Do people focus on objectives? Win through movement? Etc etc... Do warmachines and planes make a big difference to the game? They certainly look cool! And a final one. What kind of battlefield terrain leads to the best games? Cluttered? Empty? Variety of types? No doubt I'll come up with more questions as we get more games in! |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
To echo what Hena said, it is generally best to start small and simple using some of the standard armies. If you are familiar with the earlier versions of Epic, there are some major differences, so try out some of the scenarios and examples given to get a good feel for the mechanics :- - Different types of weapons and shooting effects - Assaults (both FF and CC), Supports and resolution - Hit allocation both for shooting and assaults - Special characters in E:A (different from WH) Then move on to War Engines, which have slightly different rules in certain respects for all the above; and Air/space operations which add a completely different dimension to the game Finally, terrain is very important - use lots of it and different types. The recommended level of coverage is 12 average size bits on a 6'x4' table to give around 25%-40% coverage. The point here is that the 6'x4' tabletop represents a battlefield something like 20 miles wide by 10 miles deep - (though engagements are taking place in much smaller dimensions). This involves mechanised warfare in which infantry can be very vulnerable unless they have somewhere to hide. Hena referred to the "tournament" style of battle described in section 6.0 of the rules which lasts 3-5 turns, and where the winner is determined by achieving objectives, though there are many other ways of fighting. |
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| Author: | levinas [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Thanks guys. Next game I think we'll both be trying to work on victory conditions as well as rules mechanics and general killing... |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Levinas, I'm glad you enjoyed it. You'll notice that your games will pick up in pace once you have a better handle on the mechanics and don't need to refer to the rulebook as often. Also, when you get to that point, you'll be able to concentrate more on developing tactics. When playing by tournament rules, objectives are extremely important. It's easy to get caught up in trying to annihilate your opponent  , but if you don't keep a careful eye on objectives, you'll wind up losing.
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| Author: | Dicehead [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Great to hear you are enjoying the game! I would only take maybe one warmachine each until you're really familiar with the rules and then introduce more exotic stuff like more war machines, air units and AA units in later. They are definitely fun and war machines especially look fantastic stamping their way towards objectives! One thing I found handy was to print off a single A4 sheet with the unit stats on them for your army, and maybe for the army you are playing against since that's what I needed to look up most when I started playing. It definitely becomes a far better game once you've got used to the rules and can concentrate on what you're doing. Your right those evil Leman Russ tanks are nasty, they caused me a lot of problems in my early games as did Land Raiders till I had a word with the big mek... |
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| Author: | ragnarok [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Just to reiterate what levinas has said can I have a claification of hit allocation on characters. Lets say a 5 strong tactical detachment with a captain in it comes under fire. The captain is third from the enemy. The detachment is hit 15 times (sustaining LR companies could do this). Do you roll a) 12 dice for the marines and 3 for the captain b) 3 for each stand c) 15 for the entire formation and when allocating every 5th failed save is given to the captain which is then allowed to use its Inv save. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
We usually resolve like this, allocate one hit to each unit and roll a round of saves (with a different color die for the captain). If the captain fails re-roll for invulnerable.  Then allocate one hit to each surviving unit and roll again as above. Do this until the number of hits reach 0 or you run out of units. This process is a lot simpler if you play Guard or 'nids, they don't get saves.  |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
I would say a). Because it is easier and speeds the gameup (and is the same method now used in Wh40k 5th edition) But in fact with b) the survivability of the tactical units is higher. Because 5 failed saves doens't mean all tactcical units are lost. 5 failed saves intotal under 3 could mean that the first tactical unit failed all 3 saves and the second unit fales 2 and saves one while all other tactical units save their hits. But both under a) and b) the Captain has to roll his 3 saves separately. |
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| Author: | Lord Inquisitor [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Technically, it is (b). You allocate all hits before rolling for saves, and you'll have to do it on a unit-by-unit basis. That said, (a) is often used in games to speed up game play but it is theoretically incorrect and as BL says you're statistically better off with doing (b) if it is important anyway. If you're interested in the wording: 1.9.6 Allocate Hits & Make Saving Throws You must allocate hits inflicted on your formation against targets that are within range and line of fire of the enemy. Hits are allocated ‘from the front to the back’ of a formation. Note that this is the opposite of suppression. AP hits can only be allocated against infantry units, and AT hits may only be allocated against armoured vehicles. Hits must be allocated to the closest potential target first. You may not allocate a second hit to a unit until one hit has been allocated to every potential target, or allocate a third hit until all targets have been allocated two hits, etc. Once all hits have been allocated, make saving throws for each unit that has been hit, using the unit’s armour value from its datasheet or the cover save from the terrain table. Roll a D6. If the score is lower than the armour value or cover save value then the unit fails its save, and is destroyed and removed from play. If the roll is equal to or greater than the armour or cover save value then the unit is saved and it remains in play. Make a separate save for each hit the unit suffers. Remember that the target formation receives a Blast marker for each unit that is destroyed. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Hmmm, then the method I mentioned above is technically incorrect because it is allowing for more casualties? |
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| Author: | ragnarok [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Thanks for the quick reply ladz. Myself and fluffy use a for most things and b for WE formations. |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Quote: (Dave @ 14 Jul. 2008, 16:39 ) Hmmm, then the method I mentioned above is technically incorrect because it is allowing for more casualties? Yeah, technically, but the way we play does speed up the game. |
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| Author: | levinas [ Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
Rolling for all of them at once certainly sounds faster (a benefit) but it does (i) make for more casualties and (ii) mean that the formation under fire can avoid finding itself 'out of formation' (right term?) and therefore with more options in the next turn. I guess these two things even out but for the sake of a few seconds I'd be tempted to go with rolling individually to allow for (ii) which could, I imagine, have quite some tactical import. That said, what do I know! This is pure theory-epic from me... |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First impressions... |
The way we tend to do this is as follows :- 1) Allocate the hits to the different units front to back, and then repeat until all hits are allocated (so the units at the front will have one more hit than those at the back). Think of this like adding 'layers' of hits to the formation. 2) For each class or type of unit hit, throw a 'layer' of hits simultaneously, removing surplus dice for units that have died from succeeding 'layers'. Assume that all kills are removed from front to back in the relevant groups. An example might make this a little clearer:-
Regarding mixed types of hit, any MW and TK hits on an unarmoured target just kills the unit so any 'normal' hits can be ignored; while on RA targets, you roll the normal hits first, and then add the MW hits to any rerolls required. |
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