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| Marines vrs. Chaos http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1292 |
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| Author: | -AL [ Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
Is it just me, or are Chaos forces particularly well suited to take on loyalist marines? I just seem to have a harder time against them than I do when facing all other armies... While we're at, does anyone have any good tips? Thanks, Al |
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| Author: | Tas [ Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
Keep them at range and out of CC range where they can use sacrifices to call in nasty demons and overrun you. Helltalons are nasty in pairs, take one out with your aircraft then ignore the other one and go strafing! |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
In addition to what Tas said, pick your assaults carefully. A daemon-heavy formation is a prime "clipping" target. Typically, CSM players put the daemons out front to soak hits. Daemons suck at FF (except Flamers), so you can engage at extreme range and count on very few casualties to your troops. You should win. Daemons desert broken formations, so even though you inflicted few direct casualties, the daemons all vanish. You still need to prep with BMs and try to outnumber as much as possible, but it works. Also, make sure you are using the newest daemon summoning rules. Daemons are now ~3x as expensive to summon as they used to be and it makes a big difference on balance. |
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| Author: | -AL [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
But if my opponent doesn't use many deamons? the ones he does use go strait into assult. I find that he gets sooo many more marines than I do, plus more tanks and some Super Heavies. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
Use the latest version of the list that was posted also. It has a significant increase in daemon cost, restrictions on WEs and a drop in power/rise in cost for Helltalons. Needless to say, that makes a big difference. ==== CSMs will simply have you outnumbered. You will find it nearly impossible to break them with ranged fire, but with TSKNF, he won't be able to break you either. CSMs can, however, wear you down faster. You will have to assault, so pick your assaults and hit him on your terms. You will almost always want to firefight. You should have more activations, so use your activation advantage to stay back out of range of his assaults. Most daemons only have an effective assault range of 20cm or less (5cm summoning distance + 15cm move to base). That should be easy to stay out of for the most part. Flamers (35cm), Beasts (45cm), and GDs with wings (35cm) are more problematic but do your best. If that doesn't work, try to move a formation into range to support the threatened formation. If you can't move a formation after he positions at the end of the turn, you will still have a good chance to win the strategy roll and go first at the beginning of the turn before he can come after you. Basically, this boils down to protecting your forces. Chaos will expend themselves. Deamon pools become exhausted. Broken formations can be more easily destroyed. It's not going to be easy. You have some advantages: Thawks give you maneuverability he can't aspire to. Don't do suicide missions. Use them on the flanks even if the target is less "juicy," take the win, and live to fight next turn. There's nothing worse than a Thawk which makes it off the ground to strafe for the rest of the game. Whirlwinds give you relatively inexpensive artillery (at least compared to buying a retinue just to get Defilers). Use them to prep for assaults or simply to hammer a broken formation and eliminate it entirely rather than allow it to rally. Chaplains have Inspiring, making clipping assaults more effective, while the CSM list now has no Inspiring characters (outside Greater Daemons). |
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| Author: | -AL [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
Thanks Neal. By 'clipping' I assume you mean assulting the end of a formation as opposed to its front, so as to avoid fighting the whole formation? The new version of the list will, I'm sure, will make it that little bit easier. (Quintaan was using the new list the one time I beat him) |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Marines vrs. Chaos |
Yep. Clipping frequently hits the end of a formation, but any "minimalist" assault qualifies. |
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