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Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
How do you think Gargants should look? We've been discussing Gargants on other forum threads and a number of ideas have surfaced, particularly concerning Gargant propulsion. Some like the current set of legs, others want bigger more feasible legs, and even others prefer tracked caterpillar units. How should Gargants be propelled? How about armament? Which sorts of weapons and in what quantity should a Gargant be armed? Current Gargant (or Gargant-like vehicles) include: - The Stompa - The Mekboy Gargant - The Gargant or Slasha Gargant - The Great Gargant - The Mega Gargant Are other types of Gargants or Gargants with specialized missions needed / desired? How about miniatures? What is your favorite (or favorites for that matter) Gargant? Shalom, Maksim-Smelchak.

Author:	stormseer [ Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Personally I am not too unhappy with the current "look" of Gargants- I think that their propulsion is kinda feasable- I imagine them to move in a similar way to the huge dragline mining machines used in strip mining... Regarding models, I think that all the Gargants are pretty cool, excluding the Mega Gargant ick -I can't see why people dislike the newer angular design, tho they should be made more modular like the old ones...

Author:	Legion 4 [ Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Well even though, Gargants are supposed to be in the image of Gork & Mork, their feral Gods, I think they all should be on Tracks. That includes Stompers, too. ? However, I've never done any conversions like that just because the models are so "Orky." And G/W has a tendency to make the "Green Skins" a bit "cartoony" IMO... ? Of course, the whole "Walker" concept is a bit over-the-top for me. I'd like to see more wheeled models too. But it is Sci-Fi after all, so I'm willing to "go with it"... And I keep my Walkers at a minimum... ?

Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
I've got to run some errands today and get out the door, but... I did author this thread so I'll respond. How do you think Gargants should look?

The most inspiring thing about Orks for me is their trashy modifed look, which lends them to converting. I really love this! So, any Orky vehicle is fine with me as long as it looks possible by sci-fi standards. Lots of panels, bailing wire, soddered ends, jury-rigged equipment and the like make a good Gargant in my opinion. Of course, Gargants still need the tribal look too so lots of metal cut-out teeth and pointy parts as well!

How should Gargants be propelled?

Legs would be the most popular form of propulsion, but wheels and tracks would be close seconds and thirds. Even multiple legs would be possible. I think there's room for all kinds of propulsion for a Gargant although the Stompas and Mekboy Gargants definitely have legs that look too small for their bodies (They even look too small to waddle!).

I always imagined that the original Gargants (the Slasha and Great Gargant) had legs that folded under the carapaces when they stopped to shoot instead of being like waddling sneakers. I don't mean huge long folding legs, but big enouhg to get a sort of waddling gait that would move Gargants at a reasonable speed.

How about armament? Which sorts of weapons and in what quantity should a Gargant be armed?

Gargants have always gotten a cheap deal in this category in my view of them. Imperial titans should, of course, have more high-tech armament, but I imagine a Gargant like an 18th century sailing ship with huge broadsides.

Gargants should also have more options for armament. SupaGun and SupaZap gun are fine for general categories, but what about more special things like flame guns, Lifta-Droppas, and the like? Classifying all these "mad scientist" weapons as a SupaZap gun is disappointing. I'd also like to see Gargants be able to switch out their shoulder bastions for Flak Gunz. I see Gargants as having a real need for Flak weapons as Titans, superheavies, artillary and airpower would be their biggest foes. Regular armor can be threatening, but much less so.

Are other types of Gargants or Gargants with specialized missions needed / desired?

I definitely think that specialized kinds of Gargants would be possible. I've always pictured an artillary Gargant so the Orks can get back at the Imperials. I can imagine it loaded down with long range Supagunz and screaming Orks swarming over its' exterior. "Take Dat, Humies!"

How about miniatures? What is your favorite (or favorites for that matter) Gargant?

I'd have to say I have multiple favorites:

- All of the Stompa makes including the 40k RuntBot
- The original AT-1 Great Gargant as well as the slightly modifed recast made for SM-2 / TL.
- The MegaGargant

MegaGargant! Maksim, are you crazy?

NO, I just like the model and while I can agree that the model has lame rounded edges and looks a little weeble-wobbley, I think it really catches the Orky spirit with multiple gun decks and mechanical monstrosities sticking out of the hull at every location. Plus, as a plastic model, it is a snap to customize or part out for other custom jobs. Of course, I like the fact that many other people dislike this model, I'll snap up as many as I can to use for parts on my customizations.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Author:	primarch [ Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Hi! Gargants should look like: 1. Propulsion- I always thought the "feet" on gargants were ridiculous looking. The technology required for recreating the center of gravity that shifts as you walk is quite complex. Orks being what they are would use tracks or wheels. 2. Armor- It should be patchwork, as behooves their "gathering of junk" nature. The armor is no match for the adamantium of Imperial titans, but it's cheap to come by. 3. Durability- This is a Gargant's strength. To destroy a Gargant, you literally have to blast it to pieces, bit by bit. In the time it takes to accomplish this the Gargant will destroy you. 4. Weapons- Generally short ranged, loud and with huge firepower if crappy accuracy. The "gimmick" weapons are nice but more appropriate on Mekboy vehicles that a Gargant. My 2 cents. Primarch.

Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:37 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Primarch, 1. Propulsion- I always thought the "feet" on gargants were ridiculous looking. The technology required for recreating the center of gravity that shifts as you walk is quite complex. Orks being what they are would use tracks or wheels.

I like your argument about th technology required for a center of gravity for legs, but somehow toymakers manage to do this. I think Ork Mekboys could. Concrete counterweights, anyone? Squig beer? Maybe it's a giant hamster wheel with tons of Runts running back and forth as the legs move!

2. Armor- It should be patchwork, as behooves their "gathering of junk" nature. The armor is no match for the adamantium of Imperial titans, but it's cheap to come by.

I like this reasoning!

3. Durability- This is a Gargant's strength. To destroy a Gargant, you literally have to blast it to pieces, bit by bit. In the time it takes to accomplish this the Gargant will destroy you.

Well put!

4. Weapons- Generally short ranged, loud and with huge firepower if crappy accuracy. The "gimmick" weapons are nice but more appropriate on Mekboy vehicles that a Gargant.

If I'm not mistaken, all Gargants are built by Mekboys who love "gimmicky" weapons! Warbosses want the most flashy stuff they can get. "Gimmicks" are all the better!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Author:

dafrca [ Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:45 am ]

Post subject:

Looking for Ork Advice

Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 13 2003 June,09:05)

.... but I imagine a Gargant like an 18th century sailing ship with huge broadsides.

I picture a Gargant with row after row of just "big-guns." The player picks up two large handfulls of small six sided dice and says, "OK first fifty..."

What a mental image! :laugh:

Dafrca

Author:	primarch [ Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Hi! But toys don't walk like people do, nor have the agility associated with a shifting center of gravity. Toys actually walk more like people with Parkinson's disease, a shuffling sort of gait with lots of rigidity. Granted the Mekboys could probably mimick such an inferior "walk", but tracks and wheels would be so much more efficient. Besides, if I was an Ork I'd like crushing things like a pancake with my threads! Orky weird weapons are fine and dandy if they are of high firepower, mainly based on ballistic munitions. I have a hard time belieiving Orks are capable of any "energy projection" weapons (lasers, plasma weapons, death rays). One exception is "shield" technology, their background suggests they are real good at manipulating power fields. Primarch

Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:22 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Dafrca, I picture a Gargant with row after row of just "big-guns." The player picks up two large handfulls of small six sided dice and says, "OK first fifty..." What a mental image!

Doesn't that sound tremendously Orky though?

Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:34 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Primarch, But toys don't walk like people do, nor have the agility associated with a shifting center of gravity. Toys actually walk more like people with Parkinson's disease, a shuffling sort of gait with lots of rigidity. Granted the Mekboys could probably mimick such an inferior "walk", but tracks and wheels would be so much more efficient. Besides, if I was an Ork I'd like crushing things like a pancake with my threads!

I don't see the agility issue as one that Orks would really care about. As long as the Parkinson's gait moves it foward, they're happy! Only a crazy Mekboy would care about the agility of a living thing's moving center of gravity!

Generally armored vehicles have a triangle consiting of armor, speed and agility, and firepower. I see the Orks as picking armor and firepower as priorities and agility/speed coming last.

I'm also not sure how much of a difference there would be in glee for the Orks whether the humies were smashed under a foot, tread, or wheel!

Orky weird weapons are fine and dandy if they are of high firepower, mainly based on ballistic munitions. I have a hard time belieiving Orks are capable of any "energy projection" weapons (lasers, plasma weapons, death rays). One exception is "shield" technology, their background suggests they are real good at manipulating power fields.

I agree that ballistic weapons would probably be the most popular with Orks since they would probably make the largest noises, the most recoil, and the largest explosions. However, the sounds of energy capacitors crackling with electrical energy and the gigantic pop of a SupaZapp gun going off would be pretty darn exciting as well! I picture malicious teenagers with firecrackers or small explosives.

Having good field manipulation would make the Orks masters of particle and plasma weaponry. Lasers and related technologies would probably be too delicate for them. Focussing shmocussing! I picture death rays as gigantic particle projectors (maybe even antimatter beams) or possibly "ether cannons" like the Fra'al! All weapons that would require good control of energy fields. The Telly Porta would be a natural step on the way towards antimatter weapons.

Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Author:	primarch [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:14 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Hi! Granted valid points. In a fantasy world like the 40k universe one can have pretty much everything. I understand that orks are kinda wierd and use many technologies that are pretty hard to explain rationally, but some, at least to me, really stretch my "suspension of disbelief". But its all good, I think fun is more important that reasonable explanations. Of course there is no question that red ones DO go faster! Primarch

Author:	Legion 4 [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:25 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Tracks or wheels are more "reasonable" than "feet" ... but what do I know ?

Author:	primarch [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Hi! Well, what draws me away for "feet" on gargants is that how can they actually use those feet to walk with juch a wide "belly". Also the model just shows a foot, no knee or ankle joint. Its just not possible for locomotion the way the model is depicted. Primarch

Author:	MaksimSmelchak [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Primarch, Well, what draws me away for "feet" on Gargants is that how can they actually use those feet to walk with juch a wide "belly." Also the model just shows a foot and no knees or ankle joints. It's just not possible for locomotion the way the model is depicted.

I have always imagined that the Gargant's body is a shell and that the legs fold up underneatch the shell to reveal just feet when the Gargant wants to be in an "armor-out" position of strength. Just having feet showing when in firing position would definitely cut down on the Gargant's vulnerability since the means of locomotion is the prime vulnerability on all giant walking machines.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

P.S.
My monitor is on the blink (It's very old) so I might be without a computer for a few days.

Author:	primarch [ Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Looking for Ork Advice
Hi! Try walking with confining clothing that restricts the movement of your legs. Very difficult to walk, or get anywhere in an hurry. Besides the space that "leg gears" would use would also take away from room for the boiler, engine room, ammo depot and the whole host of other things in the hull. I bet you GW has NEVER given this as much thought as we have! Primarch

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