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E:A is dead, long live E:A

 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Even if no rules are published "hard copy", I'd still like to see a few F/Ork and Necron models plus the CI. ?Whether, you like it or not all the other armies have years worth of models ! SM1/AT1/SM2/TL/E40K ... that's a lot of stuff! :)  I've got most of it arrayed in my War Room ! And I collect IG, SM (including Traitor-SM1), Ork, Eldar, Chaos/Cultists, Squat, 'Nid, TL, and Tau !  Did I miss any ?!     :;):




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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:45 pm 
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...along with the axing of both Warhammer Monthly (ok) and Inferno (oh no!) are two steps which cannot help even their main games range.


Interesting, didn't know this was on the cards...

Warhammer Monthly/Comic has recently been voted the years favourite British comic (for about the 3rd time iirc) - another case of GW shooting themelves in the foot then? :L
Sounds that way to me....

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:12 pm 
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It is disapointing. But these things happn with gaming companies. As an accountant I find it very frustrating that my enjoyment of gaming is all too often adversely affected by decisions made by other accountants! }:)
Oh the irony....
I liked Epic SM2, albeit I found the later releases were making the game to complicated (too many similar but different special rules). Like most people here I hated Epic40k as it over simplified the game. All my old SM were binned (really badly apinted) and all my old IG were thrown in the back of the wardrobe.

I got into Mechwarrior Dark Age because it initially had the feel of a fast game featuring combined arms forces of mechs, tanks and infantry. Then a bit like Epic Sm2, Mechwarrior Dark Age got more and more complex with each release and I became disatisfied with Mechwarrior Dark Age.

The release of Epic A came at the perfect time for me- I was annoyed wth myself for having missed the playtesting period but looked forward to playing it down at my gaming club. But whilst the Epic A rulebook was great my gaming buddies were n't happy. Where was the lists for Eldar, Chaod & Nids?

I am sure Swordwind is a great book (I have yet had a chance to pick up a copy). But the announcement that it is the last hard copy book has killed off any slight chance that rest of my gaming buddies would get aboard the Epic A bandwagon. This leaves me and perhaps 1-2 others that might be occasional players.

The only way I have got of getting my buddies to play is to get 2 opposing forces fully painted and take both down to get them to play. It looks like we will have a lot of games of IG vs SM until I manage to build up my fledging Waaagh into a playable sized force.

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:57 pm 
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Hi,

Makes me wonder if there would've been more players if the army books and their release schedules had been structured better? Probably wouldn't have changed the minds of the veteran players, but it might've helped bring in more new blood (and might've kept the GW bosses a bit happier with the game's re-release).

Possibly:
Rulebook:SM, IG, Orks
Supplement 1:Eldar, Chaos
Supplement 2:Tyranid, Tau, Necron
Supplement 3:OGBM, AMTL

With the minis (re-)released slowly throughout and the sub-lists released online peroidically? I can't help think that the choice of Feral Orks and Siege IG as "major supplement" releases wasn't the best option (don't get me wrong, I love both of these armies) in the circumstances.

Just a thought.

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Freshmetal

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:37 pm 
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Hi!

I agree Freshmetal, in my view it was a bad idea to concentrate on some armies and leaving others for "later".

In epic terms, "later" usually equals..

...never.

They needed to produce a complete game, and they didnt. If All armies had offical rules and rulebooks available as of now, it be a rosier picture.

Oh well, time to prepare for the next "ice age".....

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:56 pm 
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In a weird sort of way, E-A is becoming Net-Epic...

It's all going on-line and becoming fan-generated...

I guess Net-Epic won the struggle... :D

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:30 pm 
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In some ways, the end of Inferno is worse than the problems with SG. I am sure that what puts GW ahead of most other companies is its completeness and depth of imagery. Without Inferno, where will the new writers and characters come from (Gaunt, et al)? Without these, they will find it difficult to commision full novels. And if they dry up, there could be real problems. I am not so worried about Warhammer Monthly. Personally, I really didnt like it. Sure it won 'best of British' awards, but what was it up against?  ???

I agree that the release schedule was flawed (oh, the benefit of hindsight!). Even if Fanatic had concentrated on one book with one force, it would have made more sense to start from 'the back' and tackle the Chaos and Tyranid forces near the beginning, and dont withdraw the previous version miniatures at all. If this had been done, the playtest lists would actually be useable, and all the forces would be done faster.

All that said, I have to admit that I am still fairly optimistic about EA. I do think that it has a stronger base than E40K had, and to be honest I dont think that there is anything left to cut... so we can at least expect stability. It also has a better reputation as a quality game than the previous edition. It wont ever be the game to rival 40K, but it never would be. If Forge World bring out the occassional mini, and the catalgoue is kept open, I can see it hanging around for quite a while yet, and being fairly stable once the recent storms have passed.

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:18 am 
NetEpicA? Surely thats what EpicA is?
The various lists and sublists get champions and tested - how many are currently in development?
So surely the accelorated development is already happening?

Its a lot 'tighter' than the mass of stuff 2nd ed had - which I think is to its credit. The counts as idea is especially good as it means you don't have to have rules for each mark of tank is a points costed way, just a scenario way, limiting the variables and producing a balanced system.


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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:31 pm 
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Hi!

The lists get tested and championed, but they are still dependant on GW to do anything with those lists. GW holds the control.

A true "net" approach puts the control in the players had, with decisional power to what and when gets released.

What happens to those list if the website and forum gets "reorganized". Some may say that will not happen, but given GW's penchant for sudden and blunt decisions regarding resources for anything SG related, can anyone REALLY think is can't happen?

I hope for the sake of those who have invested time in those lists that they are being archived separately....

...just in case....

Just some thoughts. :)

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:43 am 
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First, I agree that the absence of future printed supplements spells doom for EA and provides a very good insight at what GW intends for the game : pay lip service to an existing community with web "support" (when will we get at least a changelog for the LRBs ?) and try to sell a couple of models with as little investment as possible (AKA bitz archives). People expecting to see a Necron army from GW (FW being still a possibility, however remote), and expecting online supplements with the quality of the rulebook and Swordwind are either very optimistic or borderline delusional.

That being said, I'm not sure that having a "complete" product would have guaranteed a success for EA.

After all, SM2 was not a finished product from the start : it had 4 expansions (Armies of the Imperium, Renegades, Ork & Squad Warlords, Hive Warriors) and a standalone/spinoff game (Titan Legions), not to mention the tons of articles for extra units/options in WD. All of that took some time to get released. SM2/TL was (back then) a sufficient success to get supported pretty well, even when other games already got axed (RIP Man'O'War...).

On the other hand, rules-wise, Epic 40K was a finished product from the start, since the book had army lists for all existing and upcoming armies. And army releases were pretty frequent at first (the game had SM and Orks in the box, and it took only a few months for Eldars, IG and Tyranids to get released, even without counting the incomplete Chaos line). Also, people with SM-era armies could use them with tournament-sanctionned rules right out of the box. That wasn't enough to prevent E40K from being axed.

I also don't think that E40K tanked because of its rules : although some old-timers were miffed because of the very high level of abstraction, it's not unusual for new versions of GW-products to generate distress/anger for a part of their older customers (I suspect this is partly by design to get rid of people who don't by that much anyway). And (donning flameproof suit here), a company able to sell an atrociously flawed system like WH40K would definitely have been able to sell E40K if it had put its mind to it.

In hindsight, I don't think anything could have saved EA considering how it started :
- very confidential game (no advertisement in WD, no demos in stores...)
- many rehashed models
- weird release schedule spanning over many years and having small unknown armies (Feral Orks, Siegemasters) take the place of some of the main armies (Chaos, Nids)

But with their recent decisions GW is not deciding to correct those flaws, but to make them even worse ! :O


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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:42 am 
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Hi!

Very Good Points Corwin. Solid Post. :)

However, note that epic 40k, was not "complete" it was missing Squats.... ?:;): (Of course they did release one in CJ at some point later, but that doesnt count..... :p ).

Do you think the online support will last though?

I'm thinking another year or so before even that fades away.

Primarch

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 Post subject: E:A is dead, long live E:A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:01 am 
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Well, as long as a few lists are hashed out...it really won't matter.  As has been stated before, the core group of players for Epic:A already have some armies, and don't buy that much at once(With some exceptions, of course. :p ).  So reguardless of what GW does, the core group of players will continue to play, in one form or another.  If there was never another release at all, in any form, I am confident that people here and other places would put together their own lists and support.  As NetEpic has shown, GW is not necessary.  Nice to have new stuff, but not necessary.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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