Tactical Command
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New Necron list on SG
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1020		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Reading through the rule book started off a train of thought (and I dont get many of those!).

Basically, I am not completely happy with the rules for transport fliers. In general, they must be one of two types:

Like a Thunderhawk, big and fast, but not around for long.

Like the Valkyries, smaller and 'true' transports. But, since they have to remain within formation distance of their cargo, this limits them.

So, a question. Does having to keep the Valkyries within 20cm of their troops, limit them at all. On the surface, it should not as they move like a Rhino but in straight lines and fight like a Land Speeder. On the other hand, they dont 'feel' like fliers. I was hoping that an IG player could let me know if the current rules actually work for these things.

I want my fliers to drop the troops in, and then scout off and hit a soft target in support of the troops before return to pickup.

As an alternative, is there any point in adapting the rules? I understand the reason for having the transport units only allowed to transport troops in their own formation, but I would like to alter this for 'friendly' games. I thought that you could buy two formations, one the transport and the other the transporter. These two formations would behave as completely seperate formations, with the single exception that you must specify before the game which formation can be transported by the fliers, and no other formations are allowed on board.

Would this work? Would this have a huge effect on the game? Any comments?
Author:  CrimsonFury [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
I think allowing transports to operate as seperate formation will work fine as long as you allow if for all transports not just 1 specifc type. And keeping within the usual limitations of what that transport can carry.

I would actually prefer the transport rules let you do that anyway. I don't see why it was disallowed in the first place. Each transport already lists what it can carry, so you shouldn't get any unbalancing combos (eg using rhinos as cheap tranpsorts for terminators, since terminators they're aren't listed in the rhino entry you can't do that)

Likewise I would have prefer to be able to split a large formation over a formation of War-Engine transports.

Eg if I have a Guardian warhost (9 models) I don't see why it shouldn't be able to split across a formation of 2 storm serpants (transport capacity 6 each).
Author:  iblisdrax [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
I don't see any real problem with this, either, since you can't actually buy small transports in their own formation.  I too am curious as to whether the Valkyrie does its job effectively tied to a stormtrooper formation.  As to the war engines, as long as the formation transporting is the only one, ie, not mixing WE transport formations, then there shouldn't be any issue there either. As a matter of fact, we will probably make a house rule to that effect.  

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
That is the way we play it ... and have been since SM1.  Once a unit disembarks from a transport, they are separate dets.  It does not make sense otherwise ...
Author:  primarch [ Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Hi!

Thats the net epic interpretation as well. Their tactical use is limited otherwise.

Primarch
Author:  Tas [ Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Quote (Legion 4 @ 22 2004 Feb.,13:52)
That is the way we play it ... and have been since SM1. ?Once a unit disembarks from a transport, they are separate dets. ?It does not make sense otherwise ...

Concur- that way they CAN hang around for Fire Spt, or not as you wish
Author:  TuffSkull [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Hi guys,

I'm still relatively unexperienced in actual gaming for E:A, so I'm turning to you for some advice as usual :D

I've been thinking this afternoon & decided that with all thenew models that are coming out, I'm going to put together a small marine army. From the gaming I have done, I belive that tactical detachments are simple one of the best units in the game & have advised a number of players to take a good share of any army in simple tactical detachments.

HOWEVER,
Now I'm looking to do my own army (tournament sized - 2700points) & I'm going to be very limited on the infantry I can field (for reasons that cannot be disclosed at this time).

I'm currently looking at:
1 Tactical detachment, Supreem commander, Hunter ? ? ? ?475
Terminator detachment + 2 drednoughts for flavour ? ? ? ? ?425
Scout detachment + sniper ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?175
Biker detachment ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 200
Predator Detachment ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?300
Land Raider Detachment ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?400
Warhound Titan ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 250

So far that totals 2225points, so I have 475 to play with.

Without adding any more infantry other than terminators, what would you suggest to make this a viable army capable of being competitive?

I want to get another hunter in there to see off enemy airpower, and am pondering a detachment of whirlwinds, but havent seen those in action yet under the new rules.

Any thoughts much appreciated, although I may not be able to reply again for a while - I'm hitting the slopes for a bit of skiing from tommorrow for 7 nights ?:cool:
Author:  mr_mich [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
I'm by far the farthest you can get from an E:A marine expert, but if I had some advice it'd be the following.

I understand your dreadnaughts will go with the terminators for flavor, but that just seems like a bad place to put them, as they'll really slow down the terminators and they may never get to see assault.  That would be a true travesty.  If you're not giving transports to the tactical squad, maybe the dreadnaughts could go there?

Aircraft may or may not be your thing, it seems to me like a love/hate thing.  You might want to check out some aircraft of some sort.

Another warhound might be a good idea, seeing as in 2700 points only one titan will be a magnet for all the TK and MW fire you can imagine.

Just a few suggestions, and I can't wait until you can disclose those reasons.  :D
Author:  Markconz [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Aren't standard tournament armies going to be 3000 points?  :o

My advice is to take whirlwinds with another hunter... reason being you have much anti-armour capability but little anti-infantry capability.  Keep your two hunters close to give overlapping air cover.

Not taking more infantry except termies seems strange, but more terminators would be ok, I'd ditch the dreads from your terminators, as they can't teleport I believe.

Also a little airpower might not hurt...

BTW did you get the e-mail I sent you?
Author:  CrimsonFury [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Quote (Markconz @ 27 2004 Feb.,20:30)
Aren't standard tournament armies going to be 3000 points? ?:o

No. 2700 points was deciced upon during the tournament trial runs.

It was choosen because it keeps the amount of models required down, and the play time down (to make sure tournament matches get completed in time), while still allowing players to take a large titan if they want.

With the 1\3 limiation on titans and aircraft, you get 900 points to spend on them. That means if you take one of the large titan (850 points) you can't afford any aircraft. It forces players to choose their WE\aircraft mixture more carefully.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Intriguing ... I can't wait to find out why you are limited on Infantry.  That being said ... I agree with some of the suggestions ... Whirlwinds, Hunter and maybe some aircraft.   :;):
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Everyone here knows my limited knowledge of Marines, but I would add some Land Speeders for some MW hits. Possibly more armour, whether that is in the form of another Warhound or some tanks such as Vindicators scattered around is up to you.
Author:  CrimsonFury [ Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
A few things to say about SM armoured formations:

IMO vindicator formations are the least useful formation in the SM army. Invidiual vindicators as upgrades are sometimes useful (mainly for an extra unit to absorb hits\BMs and add an extra FF attack).

I think predators are one of the most under-appriceated tank formations (particularly predator annihilators). While they may not be that tough compared to land raiders or leman russes, they pack awesome firepower for thier points cost. They're quite fast too, which gives thems the abilitly to react quickly to distant threats. On double orders they can reach a target 105cm from their starting point with 4x AT5+ shots and 8x AT6+ shots (thats after the -1 modifer for double orders).

Land raiders I only ever use as transports for terminators or devastators. As purely tank formation I don't think they're worth 400 points.

As someone else mentioned, I wouldn't put the dreads with the terminators. Dreads slow the formation down to much. I would only put dreads with formations I was going to garrison to sit on objectives.

Also don't forget that terminators can teleport anywhere on the table if you don't take any transports or additonal units.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
Yes, since Terminators can Teleport and Assault Marines have jump packs, we rarely ever give them transport.  As I said we have been using activation since SM1.  And we never use mixed dets. except with troops being transported and that is generally temporary.  Tank/AFV formations activate separately, as do Infantry, FA, etc. in our system.  It is simpler and stops unit from being large mixed formations.  But that is our opinion, we never planned on playing E:A "out of the box" ...  :;):
Author:  Tas [ Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  New Necron list on SG
I agree with all the above comments, espec. the ones about the dreadies with the termies, the LRaiders and adding Landspeeders.

I would also stick your one and only grunt unit into Razorbacks.  This spreads them out a lot more to make that formation more robust, plus only 1 stand of inf gets lost with each vehicle, rather than 2.  With few sets of legs, this will probably become important.

Intriged about why you cant add more grunts though, and looking forward to finding out!

Hope this helps
Tas
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