Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Marine power?

 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
Logic dictates you wouldn't build them in the first place due to cost effectiveness (see: battleships) ;D

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 558
jimmyzimms wrote:
Logic dictates you wouldn't build them in the first place due to cost effectiveness (see: battleships) ;D


To be honest i`m not that sure about the Imperial Financial system, most of the fluff implies that most of the population are pretty much slave labour with a tiny minority of uber-rich (so capitalism). I always got the impression that the powers that be said make this many of these and it got done even if it meant working half a planetary system to death.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
In risk of getting too serious, I'm more comparing them to the nature of large capital ships, especially Battleships, and how they actually were not effective at war for the costs inherit. Their very nature means that they're prone to become too expensive to risk in actual batter and are not expendable. There's a reason there's very few large capital ships in existence now and no battleships anywhere in service in any navy (last was the USS Missouri which spent the Gulf war I mainly launching cruise missiles). The few large ships that are around are namely carriers and are designed to be a facilitator of a completely different, generally cost effective and more importantly, expendable (in comparison to the ship itself) weapons system (fighters and aircraft / missiles). You're simply better off having a bunch of smaller vessels as they can be in more places, attack more targets, faster, more flexible, etc. Also as cold as it sounds, EXPENDABLE (GRF class carrier is what? 13Billion... each, while an Arleigh Burke Destroyer's...1.1ish?). L4, you probably know, weight in :D

EA actually takes this into account rather well with the activation/formation system and the inherit limitation on attacks targeting a single formation at a time. A warlord versus most other formations (outside of the equivalent counter from another faction) generally isn't as flexible and effective as other cheaper alternatives en masse. Warlords exist to counter other battle titans who are present because you've got a battle titan... yada yada yada :)

Yeah sure the Imperials will work a world to death, I've got no doubt about that. Still better from a logic and effectiveness standpoint to simply conscript the population and use them as cannon fodder or work them to death building 100000 times the number of tanks and APCs (and then conscript the surviving workers :D)

So yeah... let's not get logic involved here... I like big stompy robots and the rule of cool they represent :)

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:15 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Leicester UK
jimmyzimms wrote:
....prone to become too expensive to risk in actual batter....


mmmmmm batter

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
Yes exactly. It's sticky and has a propensity to gum up the machinery. ;D

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:23 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Leicester UK
not to mention the practicalities of making a dry-dock into a deep fryer....

to be honest I'm surprised we won the war at all....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:50 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:06 pm
Posts: 1234
Location: Westborough, Massachusetts USA
I'm more surprised that this passed without comment:

Quote:
The most powerful is the Falchion (armed with twin-linked Volcano Cannons):


[emphasis mine]

'Cause what a volcano cannon really needs is to be twin-linked with another volcano cannon. Otherwise, you might as well be pissin' in the wind ::)

_________________
Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:50 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
kyussinchains wrote:
not to mention the practicalities of making a dry-dock into a deep fryer....

to be honest I'm surprised we won the war at all....

I believe it was largely due to the actions of the 1st Battalion Transvestite Brigade Airborne Wing

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco, CA
Oh, I don’t know. 40k is a return to WWI-era combat, with large war engines (ships, and to a lesser extent titans) are not very vulnerable to small weapons systems. This isn’t like WWII or Star Wars in which a small bomber can destroy a battleship or Death Star. The smaller battle titans might be comparable to WWI battlecruisers, which could be destroyed with a lucky shot, but having the scarier battleship fleet still gives you control of the seas.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
Oh I agree that's what they're trying to evoke. It's rule of cool all the way :D

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 558
jimmyzimms wrote:
In risk of getting too serious, I'm more comparing them to the nature of large capital ships, especially Battleships, and how they actually were not effective at war for the costs inherit. Their very nature means that they're prone to become too expensive to risk in actual batter and are not expendable. There's a reason there's very few large capital ships in existence now and no battleships anywhere in service in any navy (last was the USS Missouri which spent the Gulf war I mainly launching cruise missiles). The few large ships that are around are namely carriers and are designed to be a facilitator of a completely different, generally cost effective and more importantly, expendable (in comparison to the ship itself) weapons system (fighters and aircraft / missiles). You're simply better off having a bunch of smaller vessels as they can be in more places, attack more targets, faster, more flexible, etc. Also as cold as it sounds, EXPENDABLE (GRF class carrier is what? 13Billion... each, while an Arleigh Burke Destroyer's...1.1ish?). L4, you probably know, weight in :D

EA actually takes this into account rather well with the activation/formation system and the inherit limitation on attacks targeting a single formation at a time. A warlord versus most other formations (outside of the equivalent counter from another faction) generally isn't as flexible and effective as other cheaper alternatives en masse. Warlords exist to counter other battle titans who are present because you've got a battle titan... yada yada yada :)

Yeah sure the Imperials will work a world to death, I've got no doubt about that. Still better from a logic and effectiveness standpoint to simply conscript the population and use them as cannon fodder or work them to death building 100000 times the number of tanks and APCs (and then conscript the surviving workers :D)

So yeah... let's not get logic involved here... I like big stompy robots and the rule of cool they represent :)


While i can`t particularly disagree with what your saying, i still think CI should have a Ram Attack against Titans.
I`m on a big clanky tank kick at the moment-just finished making 3x leviathans with huge dozer blades and recently painted an Iron Warriors Leviathan with a ram bar and a huge almost Bolo type Mechanicus shooty thing. Also waiting for two tank kits to come in the post that will become CI.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco, CA
jimmyzimms wrote:
Oh I agree that's what they're trying to evoke. It's rule of cool all the way :D


I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s more than just rule of cool – when the balance between firepower and survivability tilts back towards the latter (thanks largely to void shields), WWI-style combat between ships and war engines actually makes sense.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Marine power?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:00 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9658
Location: Manalapan, FL
Somewhat the Frank Herbert approach which isn't a bad one mind you. I like a reason to have guys with Chainsaw swords instead of simply destroying the enemy with a kinetic strike from orbit and moving on ;D

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dave and 62 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net