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Titan insignia
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5769		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Pariah Press [ Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
I have a few questions about Titan insignia. ?

1. ?On the Titan Legions-era models, what does the stylized "T" with the horizonal cross-bar and the downward-pointing arrowhead signify? ?Is it an updated version of the Ordo Militaris symbol? ?

2. ?I've seen a white skull on a black diamond on many titans and IG or Tech-Guard vehicles. ?What does this mean? ?

3. ?I'm a bit confused about the titan variants, such as Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Hun, etc. ?Do they represent specific weapons-fits, or merely categories of weapons fits (4 heavy weapons, or two light weapons, or somesuch)? ?What exactly does each variant have? ?

4. ?What are the symbols for each variant? ?

?Thanks for your help!
Author:  Legion 4 [ Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Let's see if I can help?

After reviewing the ancient tomes of AT1/CT, the "T" basically stands for a Titan Military Order (I won't use the Latin Text as in AT1/CT). ?

Some of my Titans fly those banners. The Skull on a black diamond, IIRC from SM2, means it is part of a Titan Legion... ??? ?

Titan Varients - back to W/D issue 109, Warhound - Mastiff & Wolf, Reaver - Vandal, Hun & Goth. ?

From AT1/CT - Warlord - Night Gaunt, Eclipse, Deathbringer & Nemsis + the very rare Predator (AT1 book).

Each varient had different weapons configurations (types & grade, and this rather involved !), shields and even in some cases speeds. The point values varied accordingly. ?

Like Hun 700 and Goth 750 (in CT). There are pics of the Titan symbols in various texts but I have no way to post (damn Webtv!), however as time went on these symbols were rarely mentioned or used as they were at the time of the Horus Heresy (AT1/CT/SM1).

The pages you need to see:  
- W/D 109 pg. 80,
- CT pg. 91 + the color pages and
- the AT1 rule book.
Author:  Pariah Press [ Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
I've given it some thought, and I don't really see most of the variants having any particular relevence in later editions of the game.  Nearly all Warlords in SM2 are essentially Nemesis variants, if I'm reading right (I'm afraid that all I have are PDFs of the old AT, SM1 and CT).  Four weapons of any type, slow-moving and limited maneuverability.  That seems to fit SM2-era Warlords to a "T."  Am I right?  
 Likewise, Reavers would fit into the Goth variant, usually.  I was always baffled by the old pictures of a Reaver titan with no weapon on the carapace hardpoint, but now it makes sense.  Less points and more speed in Adeptus Titanicus.  
 I could be getting this wrong, as I don't have any of the data cards or color plates available to me.  
 I'm trying to achieve a balance between the Adeptus Titanicus stylings, which had a very nicely detailed insignia scheme described, and the fancy waterslides that came in my Titan Legions box.   :p   I want my Warlords to look just right.  
 Would anyone be willing to scan those data cards and/or pictures to aid in my understanding, please?
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Yes, you are basically correct.  ?Maybe Primarch or Tom could help ? ???
Author:  dafrca [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
When I think of all the details of this multi-verse it just boggles the mind. No wonder GW keeps tripping over their own fluff. Between the volume and the changes in staff, I am shocked they do not have more issues.

dafrca
Author:  Pariah Press [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Hah! ?Found another inconsistancy! ?

?The Emperor-class Titans are operated by the Divisio Mandati, not the Divisio Militaris. ?I don't have the Titan Legions books in front of me this second, but I'm pretty sure that they put the stylized "T" insignia I described in "1" above on the Imperators. ?This "T" must represent something other than the Divisio Militaris. ?Perhaps it is for the Collegia Titanica / Adeptus Titanicus. ?It seems to appear on Titans of every class, but not on Tech-Guard equipment, as near as I can tell. ?The Divisio Militaris must still use the less-stylized blue "T" over a triangle described in Adeptus Titanicus. ? Over on the right side. ?
?I'm just glad I haven't updated to Epic: Armageddon yet. ?I'd have twice as much fluff to attempt to reconcile! ? :p
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
The G/W fluff is full of inconsistancies ! ?So I wish you luck !  I look at things like insignia, is based on a time frame or time line ... AT1/SM1/CT as during the Heresy, SM2/TL then E40K - centuries after the Heresy, and E:A - the Armageddon Campaign (current time - present). ?But there are inconsistancies throughout ... :)
Author:  Pariah Press [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
I suppose a lot could have changed in the last 10,000 years.  I guess a lot of things haven't, though.  Look at the Space Marines, still following the Codex Astartes.  The Adeptus Mechanicus is so ritual-bound that it seems strange to me that they would change anything.  Still, a lot of changes could have been made when they broke up the original (huge and self-sufficient) Titan Legions after the Horus Heresy.
Author:  dafrca [ Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Quote (Legion 4 @ 09 2004 July,23:05)
The G/W fluff is full of inconsistancies ! ?

That is why I created my own Space Marine chapter and IG Army. That way they could change all the fluff they want and my paint/org is safe from them.   :p

Of course as Master L4 has tought me, it all does not matter because I can play any way I want with my toys.  :laugh:

dafrca
Author:  Pariah Press [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
The plot thickens even further! ?Take a look at the old IG decals in this auction! ?Notice anything familiar?
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Ah yes, Daf ... always do what works for you and your crew ! :;):  And no matter what ... they're still toys ! :D    And I have those decals/transfers and use them on my Titans, AFVs, etc.   ... it works !   And no doubt in the evolution of military units, some things will change and some will stay the same.  Most of the Divisional patchs on US Army uniforms are in many cases, direct copies of the WWI patchs.  Of course the uniform has changed drastically since then.  While I served in the US Army, '79-'90, I wore 4 different types of combat uniforms !   :;):
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
Quote (Pariah Press @ 10 2004 July,05:05)
Hah!  Found another inconsistancy!  

 The Emperor-class Titans are operated by the Divisio Mandati, not the Divisio Militaris.

Not exclusively. In the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook it is mentioned that Diviso Mandati uses only Emperor class titans, but not that only Divisio Mandati uses them.

The newer "T" symbol appeared without explanation in the Legio Metallica Warlord painted for the promotion of 2nd ecition Space Marine. Curiosly it bears more resemblance to the Divisio Telepathica symbol in the AT rulebook than anything else, although the symbols are far from being identical.
Author:  Pariah Press [ Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Titan insignia
I agree.  The Titan Legions books make it clear that the Legio Metalica, for example, operates Imperator Titans.  

 The appearance of the "T" symbol on the Epic Imperial Guard decal sheet is yet another twist in the mystery.  Perhaps they just threw the Titan Legions symbols on there for lack of anything better.  

 For my Titans, I will use the "T" as a general Adeptus Titanicus symbol, and use the old symbols from Adeptus Titanicus to represent the Ordo Militaris, etc.  Assuming there ever is and "etc" for me.  It may be Ordo Militaris all the way if I can't get me a Psi-Titan!   :{
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