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Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?

 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:29 am 
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Note that this is  an attempt to clarify for myself
a Chaos Engine/Knight "Bestiary"

Ok=>
I am a little confused by the 40K 're-imaging'
(so what else is news?)
This used to be a Blood Slaughterer
http://www.freewebs.com/grandmasterwade ... hterer.JPG
and Now this is the 'new' Blood Slaughterer
http://www.gamehole.com/images/Harrower2.jpg
< ahem> I mean this is the 'new' Blood Slaughterer
http://www.mwunion.com/wp-cont....ore.jpg

Question:  
Under the Current Fluff;
Is the Blood Slaughterer simply the Khornate version of the Defiler?
http://www.mrocznyraj.pl/sklep....ler.jpg
They look awfully similair....
Is the Slaughterer simply a type of Possessed Defiler,
(the new Gnurgle Plague Hulk implies this , at least to me:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/plaguehulk.htm   )
or are they simply two (um...three) entirely different beasties...?


Okay, question the Second:
Given:
http://www.solegends.com/citcat94/cat1994104-02.htm
The Slaughterer was the smallest of the mebbe-possessed war-engines,
followed by the larger DeathDealer
http://media.photobucket.com/image....jpg?o=6
Then, finally:the quasi-titanic Lord of Battle
http://www.coolminiornot.com/223304

This followed (more or less, relatively speaking)
the established  pattern of; (from lesser to greater)  
Daemon Beast, Lesser Daemon,  Greater Daemon,
(albeit in Mechanized Form).

Are these now considered to be, basically:
The Same Thing, just  different sizes of?
Or are they still completely different beasties, following the pattern (above)?
Are all four Chaos powers still allowed to use these 'types', theoretically...?

(The question arises because I note, parenthetically, that
the Death Dealer & Blood Slaughterer are now
basically, functionally:  one & the same,
at least based on relative size,if not game-specific abilities...)

Question the Third:
Am I correct in assuming that:
http://home2.inet.tele.dk/json/additional.html
"Beast" ≈ Slaughter ≈ Plague Hulk ≈ HellStrider ≈ DoomWing
"Lesser" ≈ Death Dealer ≈ HellKnight/Hell Scourge ≈ Fire Lord≈ Contagion
"Greater"≈ Lord 'o' Battle ≈ Subjugator/Questor ≈ Silver Tower ≈ Plague

{ I know, its 'Chaos',
so by definition it doesn't need to follow any "logic";
But, Hey:
can't blame a guy for trying....}




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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:16 am 
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New background and models often draws inspiration from old stuff and sometimes is faithful to what was before, sometimes not.

A Defiler is a daemon trapped inside a mechanical body, so it's a demon engine just as much as a Slaughterer is (just one that can be allied to any power even bland undivided). A Slaughterer is smaller though and more akin to a Khornate demon dreadnought than the larger defiler (both epic models sadly are somewhat oversized, but hey look cool). A Soul Grinder is a variant Defiler in the W40k Daemon army list that is 'unbound' and visibly possessed by a powerful demon. The new Plague Hulk from Forgworld looks to me kind of like a variant Soul Grinder.  

You can categorise things if you like though chaos doesn't fit neatly into categories, nor should it. A Silver Tower is a lot smaller than the others in your greater list, I'd put it in the lesser category and assume Tzeentch has no greater one. A Hellstrider is a Slaaneshi Knight and not overly demonic or beastlike.

To add to the confusion have you encountered the re-imagined Brass Scorpion yet? That is something that has been gradually re-envisaged over time, first with a semi-official defiler conversion in W40k and then later with an official massive war engine sized Brass Scorpion, meaning you now have 3 versions of the same vehicle in different sizes and which have been included in current epic Khorne fanlists as things like 'Greater Brass Scorpion'.


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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ Sep. 25 2009, 11:16 )


A Defiler is a daemon trapped inside a mechanical body, ...{snip pertinent discussion for space}... new Plague Hulk from Forgworld looks to me kind of like a variant Soul Grinder.  

…soulgrinder…?

Man, am I out of the loop :/

So…..
Is a 'Soul Grinder' a Possessed Defiler, or something else entirely?
And a Plague Hulk basically a Nurgle Soul Grinder…?
That I can follow, at least.

A Slaughterer is somewhere between a Dreadnought and a Defiler,
Basically a greater-daemon Possessed Dreadnought
have i got that  right?
Quote: (GlynG @ Sep. 25 2009, 11:16 )


You can categorise things if you like though chaos doesn't fit neatly into categories, nor should it. A Silver Tower is a lot smaller than the others in your greater list, I'd put it in the lesser category and assume Tzeentch has no greater one.

Right,right;
There was the Citadel Journal addition of the 'Warp Palace' that filled the
Tzeentchian "Greater Daemonic WarEngine" category, though-
Quote: (GlynG @ Sep. 25 2009, 11:16 )


To add to the confusion have you encountered the re-imagined Brass Scorpion yet? ... been included in current epic Khorne fanlists as things like 'Greater Brass Scorpion'.

Right, I knew that, sorta; the 'true scale' thing, right?
< nonplussed>
So a Death Dealer would be…a "Greater" Soul Grinder?
…Or a "Greater" Defiler?
…or something else again?
Quote: (GlynG @ Sep. 25 2009, 11:16 )


A Hellstrider is a Slaaneshi Knight and not overly demonic or beastlike.

Oh, I dunno->
since we haven't seen any "re-imaged" Slaaneshi vehicles (AFAIK),
I would suspect that were Forge World to manufacture a Hell Strider;
it would be suitably daemonic & beastlike...

In Fact:
Since the "Greater" Brass Scorpion is, design wise,
More Dark Eldar-esque than Khornate in aesthetic (a "Greater Talos" if you will:
If someone were to paint one as a Slaaneshi vehicle and call it a
Hell Strider or Hell Knight/Scourge: I can't forsee anyone objecting overmuch....




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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Quote: (Volstagg @ Sep. 25 2009, 14:19 )

Quote: (GlynG @ Sep. 25 2009, 11:16 )

New background and models often draws inspiration from old stuff and sometimes is faithful to what was before, sometimes not.

A Defiler is a daemon trapped inside a mechanical body, so it's a demon engine just as much as a Slaughterer is (just one that can be allied to any power even bland undivided). A Slaughterer is smaller though and more akin to a Khornate demon dreadnought than the larger defiler (both epic models sadly are somewhat oversized, but hey look cool). A Soul Grinder is a variant Defiler in the W40k Daemon army list that is 'unbound' and visibly possessed by a powerful demon. The new Plague Hulk from Forgworld looks to me kind of like a variant Soul Grinder.  

You can categorise things if you like though chaos doesn't fit neatly into categories, nor should it. A Silver Tower is a lot smaller than the others in your greater list, I'd put it in the lesser category and assume Tzeentch has no greater one. A Hellstrider is a Slaaneshi Knight and not overly demonic or beastlike.

To add to the confusion have you encountered the re-imagined Brass Scorpion yet? That is something that has been gradually re-envisaged over time, first with a semi-official defiler conversion in W40k and then later with an official massive war engine sized Brass Scorpion, meaning you now have 3 versions of the same vehicle in different sizes and which have been included in current epic Khorne fanlists as things like 'Greater Brass Scorpion'.

…soulgrinder…?

Man, am I out of the loop :/

So…..
Is a 'Soul Grinder' a Possessed Defiler, or something else entirely?
And a Plague Hulk basically a Nurgle Soul Grinder…?
That I can follow, at least.

A Slaughterer is somewhere between a Dreadnought and a Defiler,
have i got that  right?



…or something else again?

Sorry forgot to put a link in to one - see here.

I think yes is the answer to your two questions, but I'm not 100% certain on the exactitudes of demons.


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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:14 pm 
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The Soul Grunder isn't a possessed Defiler because a Defiler is by definition possessed because it is a Daemon Engine.

A Defiler is a Daemon trapped in a machine. He is bound to it.
A Soul Grinder is a Daemon which is fused with a machine. He is unbound so can leave it if he wants.

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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Sep. 25 2009, 17:14 )

The Soul Grunder isn't a possessed Defiler because a Defiler is by definition possessed because it is a Daemon Engine.

A Defiler is a Daemon trapped in a machine. He is bound to it.
A Soul Grinder is a Daemon which is fused with a machine. He is unbound so can leave it if he wants.

Okay....
I'm not sure the difference isn't semantic;
let's try a new tact:

A Defiler is a Daemon trapped in a WarMachine,
a Soul Grinder is a WarMachine trapped in a Daemon:

Is that how it works, more or less?

Hmm..
According to the linkie provided by GlynG (Thanks! Good Source!!)
" the Soul Grinder  (bears) a passing resemblance to the Chaos Defiler,
but the background states that Defilers
were commissioned by Abaddon the Despoiler
while Soul Grinders are from the Forge of Souls."

That  sounds to me like (according to Fluff)
Defilers are a sub-set of Soul Grinders, or  of vice versa-
Definitely an implied relationship, IMO.

Interesting...




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 Post subject: Current fluff on 40K Giant Chaos Robots...?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Quote: 

A Defiler is a Daemon trapped in a WarMachine,
a Soul Grinder is a WarMachine trapped in a Daemon


LOL. I guess yes  :laugh:

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