Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

There is now a version 1.7
jfrazell
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144
version 1.7

As of point of writing I cannot tell if this is the only change recommended to the BT list (I am assuming this is the case).

_________________
"Advance to the Rear!"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:23 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(jfrazell @ Aug. 18 2006,15:01)
QUOTE
version 1.7

As of point of writing I cannot tell if this is the only change recommended to the BT list (I am assuming this is the case).

I *believe* that version 1.7 is just Sotec's way of stopping all the armchair arguing and complaining, not the full extent of the changes to the Eldar he is proposing.

Since, in that message, he indicates he'll be privately testing a "1.8", I think it's pretty safe to assume that more changes will be proposed.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Mephiston
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262
Yep, looks like Sotec has given up on the committee approach.

Pitty, I think what the ERC is given will contain more changes than most of us think are necessarry.

I still think its strange that the Eldar now have no access to leader. Is there some fluff reason for this?
Top
 Profile  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Mephiston @ Aug. 18 2006,15:46)
QUOTE
I still think its strange that the Eldar now have no access to leader. Is there some fluff reason for this?

Eldar have never had access to leader, at least in the Biel-Tan list.  The only place it exists is under the supreme commander ability of the Autarch.

The Tau playtesters have been discovering that lack of leaders in a lot of their formations was having a strongly negative impact on their later game survivability and I can't see how the same can't been seen with the Eldar.

Rather than dropping it, I still like the "only unbroken" formations benefiting from Spirit Stones.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
bloodman
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:03 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Washington state unversity in pullman washington
Well to an extent. The eldar are dying race and would rather run away and come back later than risk they lives pointlessly so im my opinion they should be breakable easyly.

also there leaders would probably advise discreation over valor as eldar births are very rare and each imortal man women child is a valued member of there race.

_________________
mmmm....free styrene

attempting the impossible, trying to get my Girlfriend to play epic

also looking for epic player in the pullman-moscow area
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Mephiston
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262

(Chroma @ Aug. 18 2006,16:01)
QUOTE

(Mephiston @ Aug. 18 2006,15:46)
QUOTE
I still think its strange that the Eldar now have no access to leader. Is there some fluff reason for this?

Eldar have never had access to leader, at least in the Biel-Tan list.  The only place it exists is under the supreme commander ability of the Autarch.

I've been overlooking the fact that SC gives you leader in addition to Commander  :(

Now I see that Eldar can have a leader I shall slink off and stop complaining about it!  :;):
Top
 Profile  
 
Ilushia
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 1189
From the style of the post, I'd bet that Chroma is right. This seems more like an act of desparation to avoid people who are sitting around going 'I don't like X because it conflicts with my idea of how the Eldar should be!'. He's been pushing REALLY hard to get people to actually TEST the changes before commenting. And I, for one, do feel bad for him... Since just about everyone's been complaining out of hand at his ideas, and a lot of them seem like a good choice to me. Now if only I could find the time to play some games again...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
jfrazell
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144

(Ilushia @ Aug. 18 2006,19:01)
QUOTE
From the style of the post, I'd bet that Chroma is right. This seems more like an act of desparation to avoid people who are sitting around going 'I don't like X because it conflicts with my idea of how the Eldar should be!'. He's been pushing REALLY hard to get people to actually TEST the changes before commenting. And I, for one, do feel bad for him... Since just about everyone's been complaining out of hand at his ideas, and a lot of them seem like a good choice to me. Now if only I could find the time to play some games again...

I think thats part of the problem. We're into V1.7  already with substantial changes in each version, all in the matter of a few weeks.  Generally you're not going to get many playtest games at that stage.

I do feel that people should be free to comment. The onus is on the person who wants to change the list to prove those necessary or beneficial, not the critics.  Further, when you have other army champions harshly disagreeing with you in public, then its time to back of a little and think about what you're trying to achieve.

1) Is there a consensus that the list needs to be modified.

2) If so how strong and to what extent is the consensus on that?

3) If above then tailor the changes to that.  

Step #2 has been eliminated and that is what everyone is screaming about.  There is no consensus that radical changes need to be implimented to the existing list.  At V1.7 nearly every unit and every special rule has been materially changed. To go to that level the list would have to have been fundamentally broken in the first place. I don't see that.  Overpowered likely, some units weak - thats usually the case.  Fundamentally broken?-No not by a long shot.

Further, the changes requested are not KISS. Jetbikes for an easy example. We're now at the point of reducing armor and fnudamenetally changing what they are. IF there is a need why not try to reduce the armor save first and gauge that impact, or adjust the points to make the list more expensive? Then tweek further if the consensus is that they remain too strong.

_________________
"Advance to the Rear!"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:00 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
I've asked repeatedly for explanations.  I've asked for both motivation behind the changes and an explanation of how the changes achieve the motivating goals.  I've been as specific with the questions as I know how so as not to just give a vague "why" and expect some sort of comprehensive answer.  I've seen a summary of the 40K rule changes with a fair amount of detail.

I still have almost no idea as to the purpose of half the changes or more.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tactica
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
jfraz,

As noted (at much more length) over at SG, I think the 'sticky' nature of 1.6 vs. the 'just posted as normal thread' approach of 1.7, not to mention the ensuing changes and the appearent short and sweet - "just go do this" was really meant to appease a few.

The 'other' work or the 'real work' appears to be going on in 1.6 and perhaps what is soon to be a 1.8 version.

As noted in the longer 1.7 response, I think what you see in 1.7 is the beginning of Sotec getting publicly frustrated.

_________________
Rob
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:09 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Ilushia @ Aug. 18 2006,18:01)
QUOTE
And I, for one, do feel bad for him... Since just about everyone's been complaining out of hand at his ideas, and a lot of them seem like a good choice to me. Now if only I could find the time to play some games again...

I felt bad for him too, until he went and did this!  :p

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MC23
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:08 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:27 am
Posts: 174
This makes me think of Sotec from the old playtesting days when he would throw out all sort of ideas in rapid succession coming purely from his train of thought. Unfortunately this is a review of an existing published army where such behavoir is unwarranted.

_________________
I am MC23
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
philipc68
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:28 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:04 am
Posts: 96
Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia
I've refrained from commenting on changes since I haven't even managed to playe a game of E:A yet (tomorrow will be the first time, yay!)

However, as a design principle I agree with many people's comment that Sotec's suggestions are too much to start with - the complete list of changes is a big perturbation to add to an army which is possibly only a little out of balance. I don't understand the resistance to starting to playtest with a small list of changes and see how that goes. Spirit stones have been pretty thoroughly shown to be unnecessary. The only big remaining problems appear to be 1) revenants are too cheap 2) hit&run on jetbikes is a bit too good (based on people's reports). While I like some of Sotec's other suggestions I think it would be simpler to first make the minimum changes necessary to balance the list, *then* think about rationalising/simplifying/sensiblising the army. I also don't care how well the Epic army follows 40k (within reason), they're different systems and things that matter at 28mm don't necessarily matter at 6mm.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to play my Ulthwe vs. Marines. The only rule change I plan to make is to drop spirit stones.

Philip
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: There is now a version 1.7
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:45 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(philipc68 @ Aug. 19 2006,04:28)
QUOTE
Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to play my Ulthwe vs. Marines. The only rule change I plan to make is to drop spirit stones.

Poor marines  :;):  I look forward to hearing your results and impressions though.


My group is playing a game with an Ulthwe player and a Guard player, against two orks players tomorrow (I'm one of the orks  :) ) We will be using what I've decided to call 1.7M. This is a much cut down list of changes selected from Sotecs (ones which seem to have more support and better chance of actually getting through ERC):

http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/t ... IC_ID=8355

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net