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Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5674 |
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Author: | Markconz [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
My Biel Tan used: Phantom Vampire (transporting a Guardian warhost) Guardian Host with 3 Wraithguard, 3 HW platforms 8 Banshees with 4 WS 8 Scorpions with 4 WS 5 Falcons 5 Falcons 4 Rangers Ulthwe used: 3 Phoenix Bombers 3 Pheonix Bombers 3 Scorpion SHT (1 formation) 4 Jetbikes and 2 vypers Black Guardians with 3 support platforms, 2 farseers, 3 walkers, 3 vypers. Guardians with 3 support platforms, 3 Wraithguard. Guardians with 3 support platforms, 3 Wraithguard. 3 Nightspinners 3 Nightspinners Terrain for this battle was a 6x4 table with about 8 patches of forested hills scattered randomly. Objectives were all near the centre of the table. All the latest experimental rules were used. I set up the phantom in my centre with falcons and serpents either side in forests, as were the walking guardian host and rangers. Ulthwe deployed black guardians, scorpions and Nightspinners on their left, guardians and bikes in their centre, guardians and Nightspinners on their right. TURN 1. I won the strategy roll and made the Ultwhe move first. All my units bar my Phantom were in cover to reduce enemy fire effects. Ulthwe hit the Phantom with both Bomber groups doing 2 damage and destroying its holofield. 1 Phoenix was shot down. I swung my attack to the Utlhwe left to attack their most powerful units - I knew I had to get in quick or the Ulthwe ranged firepower would destroy me in short order. I doubled a formation of falcons, popped up and blasted the scorpions, damaging them and suppressing one. Return fire from the scorpions killed all but one of my falcons which fled to safety. My walking guardians advanced to the centre of the board to contest objectives there and lure enemy forward. The black guardians advanced and fired upon them as did another guardian formation. I fired ineffectually with the phantom ?- killing some infantry. I tried to double with my other falcon unit to have another go at the scorpions but failed the activation roll - so just moved ready to try again next turn. ? As the Black Guardains had moved away from their scorpion SHT's and nightspinners, I air assualted these with the vampire and guardians. Nightspinners were destoyred, scorpions lost 1 of their number, broke and retreated. My victorius guardians then broke due to casualties. After a few activations used to manoeuveur I raced the banshees behind the black guardians and unloaded ready to assault. Nightspinner fire killed 4 banshee stands (despite cover). ?My stirking scorpions unloaded in front of the black guardians ready to assist the banshees and walking guadina host in a big fight next turn. Luckily for me the two remaining Ulthwe scorpion SHT do not rally. TURN 2 Realising that things are about to go to hell, the black guardians summon their Avatar in their midst. My walking guardian host also summoned the Biel Tan Avatar. I won the all important strategy roll and engage the balck guardian host, jetbikes and avatar, with Striking Scorpions, Banshees and a guardian warhost, while my own avatar sits back and watches. - Combat resolution is 19 to me and 11 to the Ulthwe. All Ulthwe units are destroyed bar their Avatar. My striking scorpion formation breaks and retreats due to casualties, the other units consolidate. Revenge comes as the Ultwhe Nightspinners break my walking guardian host, and bombers break my Banshees. My remaiining falcon unit doubles and destroys the Scorpion SHT formation (1 point of damage plus 2 points for taking BM). My phantom charges up the middle of the table and shoots ineffectively. Bombers kill 2 falcons and break the formation. My vampire attacks the nightspinners but misses. My avatar beats up the remains of anther guardian formation leaving only its farseer alive. End of the turn after rallies I have a 3 falcon formation, ?scorpion banshee and guardian formations all at exactly half strength, and my titan. Also around but broken are scouts, a falcon, and walking guardian host. The Ulthwe have a guardian formation untouched just in front of my phantom, two flights of bombers, a broken nightspinner formation, and a single lone farseer... TURN 3. Ulthwe win initiative. They engage against the phantom with the guardian warhost. The phantom lives - on 1 DC remaining, but is finished off by two phoenix bombers. I engage with my guardian host ?against the lone farseer killing him and taking the objective he was holding. The other phoenix bomber flight then swoops in and breaks my striking scorpions. My banshees take the Ulthwe table edge objective, and Utlhwe has run out of activiations. I still have falcons and vampire to activate but there is no need. I have Blitz, BTS (the Ulthwe Scorpion SHT), They shall not pass, and Take and Hold obectives. Ulthwe have BTS (the phantom). 4-1 to Biel Tan. In conclusion a fun game - which could have gone very differently. If I had lost initiative on turn 2 then my high risk manoeuver with 1000 points of aspects could have gone badly wrong. Also I am feeling the urgent need to invest in some firestorms ? ![]() |
Author: | Markconz [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
Comments regarding eldar development, balance etc: Well not much really. Eldar vs eldar is fun because their overpowered (IMHO) lists balance each other out, and at least I get to stomp more eldar no matter what happens. However, can someone tell me why Ulthwe are SR 5 again? :O Biel Tan manage fine with SR 4, and they are the closest Eldar really come to having a positive warlike 'get out there and get some!' attitude like orks and other proper races. ![]() |
Author: | Chroma [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:30 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k | ||
I believe it's based on them having many more Seers, so they have better "planning"... or something. *laugh* Thanks for the report! |
Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
Civil War among the pointy eared Xenos ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Tactica [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
Marconz, I'm curious about the SR myself. SR 5 seems to guarantee the first activation every turn against many forces from game balance perspective. That should be paid for. I'm not sure the Ulthwe are adequately paying for that premium in the Eldar list. Such planning and such elites should significantly reduce the force in comparison to other eldar forces of equal composition. Marines, from a fluff perspective should out plan an Eldar force tactically and strategically. They are bio-engineered warriors which do nothing more than train for combat. No amount of 'future seeing' is going to let you out manouvre a well orchestrated battle plan. Seeing the future does not necessarily allow to manipulate your fate. Cheers, |
Author: | Tactica [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
Marconz, What was your take on the relative unit and formation count in Ulthwe vs. Bel-tan? For the SR5 and increased unit seer potential, did it feel like the units were paying for the increased strategy (i.e. BM management, higher activation success, better Command and Control) Curious on your take of the comparisons, potentials, and constraints between the lists - assuming Swordwind is the balancing norm of eldar. (PS - fully agree, eldar in general are a bit skewed to the overpowered by comparison to other lists in the book. On the other hand, new development will only use Eldar in swordwind as a measure of test. If the Swordwind Eldar can be beat 50% of the time by the new races developed, they will become the standard, not the overpowered... and the initial three lists will become underpowered) Cheers, |
Author: | Markconz [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k |
Hi Tactica - it's hard to draw many conclusions about the relative strengths of the lists on the basis of just one game (though I have played several games against previous versions of Ulthwe). Like I say the SR 5 was the main point which made me go 'hmmm'. I mean what are the Ulthwe paying for that?? I think it is unnecessary. Although we didn't use them, the Seer Counsel also seems a much better SC deal than an Autarch - for reasons already discussed in previous threads. I don't feel a reliance on guardians is a negative for the Ulthwe. Guardians are cheap and numerous, have excelelnt upgrade optison - I find them great with Biel Tan... aspects are expensive, few in number and very unforgiving of mistakes in comparison in my experience. Anyway we have more games planned, plus there is another Ulthwe player here as well... so more info will be forthcoming. |
Author: | Chroma [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:45 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Biel Tan vs Ulthwe - 3k | ||
I believe Ulthw? should have SR5, but their units should not cost the same as SR4 Eldar, and this is something I've been saying since Day 1. A simple increase of 10% or so points across the board for the basic Warhosts and Troupes should, in essence, correct for the SR5. This will reduce the number of Ulthw? units to counter-balance the higher likelihood of going first and I think it's valid. I do play Ulthw?, and have recently started taking a 10% point handicap to test this and I'm still kicking butt. I highly recommend the point change for Ulthw? as I've seen them as slightly overpowered for some time now, and this small tweak would most likely bring them back into balance for a "strong" list. |
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